Talk:Bass (vocal range)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article falls within the scope of the Opera WikiProject, a collaboration to develop Wikipedia articles on operas and opera terminology, opera composers and librettists, singers, designers, directors and managers, companies and houses, publications and recordings. The project talk page is a place to discuss issues, identify areas of neglect and exchange ideas. New members are very welcome!
Start This article has been rated as Start-class on the quality scale.
Archive
Archives
/Archive 1- January 2006- August 2007 discussions


Contents

[edit] Ivan Rebroff

Someone is consistently removing Ivan Rebroff from the list of notable bass singers. Why? If a person who is mentioned in the Guinness book of records is not notable then I don't know who is. And if this is not a superb bass vocal range, then I don't know what is: http://youtube.com/watch?v=a6DOUB3O35E 85.194.211.152 (talk) 17:08, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I think the issue here is that the article on Ivan Rebroff does not list any third party sources and frankly needs quite a lot of work. If that article were improved considerably than it wouldn't be a bad person to include on the list.Nrswanson (talk) 09:30, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bass-baritones a "bass type"?

I believe a subsection should be added to the "types of bass voices" discussing bass-baritones. A great deal of so-called "bass" repertoire falls to these fellows (Don Giovanni, Figaro, Il Conte--maybe Leporello--just to name a few), and in my experience they are just as often considered as basses as they are baritones. 69.178.122.114 09:48, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pop musicians with a bass voice

Please add examples of pop musicians with a bass voice, if there are any. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.48.184.50 (talk) 13:28, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I had suggested adding Thurl Ravenscroft to the list, but the powers-that-be removed him; we'll be hearing him on the radio any day now singing You're a Mean One, Mr. Grinch. Other suggestions might be (and they are a strech):
Bill Medley, although I would think that most consider him a baritone.
Ed Ames, the "Boston Baritone," but a very deep one.
Frank Sinatra, although I would think that most consider him a baritone.
Bing Crosby. Over his career, his voiced dropped. Near the end, his usual range was from F2 to F3, and was particularly noted for good Eb2's. Weyandt (talk) 18:40, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Johnny Cash -- He goes down to E2 in Folsom Prison Blues, San Quentin, I've Been Everywhere, and several other tunes.
Junior Brown -- He goes down to E2 in My Wife Thinks You're Dead. -- Weyandt (talk) 20:33, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm ashamed of myself! How could I forget
Barry White. I don't think that anyone would consider him anything other than a bass. Weyandt (talk) 18:40, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] high g?

I removed the sentence:

It is necessary to sing a "G" above middle "C" to be able to sing most bass repertoire.

The preceding claim that high singing requires more breath depends on one's technique, I guess! Sparafucil 08:41, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Where exactly needs a bass-singer to sing a high g? I know some roles that requires a high f (Figaro, Osmin, Boris Godunov, ect). In Rimsky-Korsakov's version Boris requires even a high g-flat, but Rimsky considered it a baritone-role. When Verdi, for example, asks for a high g he calls for a baritone. Wagner demands a high g from Wotan, but he's a bass-baritone and not a real bass. AdamChapman 12:01, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. Mahler's Resurrection Symphony requires Bb1 to G4, but that is exceptional. Even most British composers don't expect above F4 out of basses. 71.79.110.56 22:20, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Mustafa in L'Italiana in Algeri sings a G4 at least 4 times in the second act. Although "most bass repertoire" is a bit of a stretch.69.178.122.114 09:41, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

And almost always in falsetto! Another g' never (or?) sung as written is Hagen's shout as he kills Sigrfried. Basses will often interpolate a g' when they feel lucky or in good voice, i.e. the end of La calunia in C major. Sparafucil (talk) 05:08, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bass roles in opera

Am I the only one who thinks that the title-role in Boris Godunov, Ivan Khovansky and Dosifey from Khovanshchina, and other major bass-roles should be included? With all the respect to Banquo and the Grand Inquisitor, these are minor roles.

[edit] Merger of Bass baritone article into Bass (vocal range)

According to most vocal pedagogy books, the bass baritone voice is a sub-type of the bass voice. For this reason, I believe this topic should be discussed here. This is also in keeping with the vocal categorization in the German Fach system and with the common practice of hiring Bass-baritone singers to sing Bass repetoir by opera companies.Nrswanson (talk) 09:40, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

By all means, discuss bass types here in the article, then we can decide whether to merge. At present it seems to me that Bass-baritone has enough material to stand on its own, though. Sparafucil (talk) 01:01, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Questions on the number of bass types and suggestions for restructuring

In researching the bass voice types I have found that this article is essentially an odd attempt to recreate the German fach system and Italian classification system without truly integrating the two. As a result, there are many more voice types than should be on this page as the two systems overlap. In the Italian tradition, basses are typically divided into only two groupings: Lyric Bass (Basso Cantabile) and Dramatic Bass (Basso Profundo). The Bass-Baritone voice was "discovered" by Wagner and did not really become a part of the Italian system until the 20th century. Further distinctions just simply were not made. "Buffo roles" (role type more than an actual voice type) can be played by either but more often played by Basso Profundo singers. The German Fach system, however, has many more sub-divisions that don't necessarily coincide with the Italian systems distinctions. One error on this page seems to be the terms "Lyric Basso Profundo" and "Dramatic Basso Profundo" which would not be in keeping with either system. A lyric bass is a basso cantabile in the Italian tradition and not a basso profundo which is a dramatic voice. So the distinction here between lyric and dramatic is just incorrect. It appears that the author of that section was trying to draw an exact parallel with the German fach term "Seriöser Bass" (which does have lyric and dramatic distinctions)where no such parallel exists. They are different terms with different meanings, albite with some overlapping roles. Here is a more accurate chart (although nothing will ever perfectly align) of how the systems line up.

Basso Cantabile (lyric bass): Encompasses lyric bass-baritone, most Jugendlicher Bass roles, and Lyric Seriöser Bass. Some buffo roles may also be included but Italians tend to cast Basso Profundo singers in these roles more frequently even in those designated as "Spielbass" in the fach system.

Basso Profundo (dramatic bass): Encompasses dramatic bass-baritone, Schwerer Spielbass and also Spielbass, Dramatic Basso Profundo, and Dramatic Seriöser Bass.

In my opinion, there is really no point in recreating the fach system here as there is already an article on that system. There is also little point in only using the Italian system as it doesn't adequately cover the bass-baritone repetoire. My suggestion for this page would be to divide the bass parts into five groupings (which is typical in British/American vocal pedagogical circles): lyric bass, dramatic bass, lyric bass-baritone, dramatic bass-baritone and buffo roles noting that the lists are a synthesis of various vocal classification traditions.Nrswanson (talk) 04:39, 31 May 2008 (UTC)