Talk:Basque Country (autonomous community)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Spain Portal
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Spain, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Spain on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
High This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.
Basque Portal

This article is within the scope of the Basque WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Basque people, Basque Country, Basque language, history and culture. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.

Contents

[edit] Economy

The economy section is incorrect in stating that the basque country has the highest GDP per capita of all the autonomous communities in Spain. That honour falls to Madrid. Please see http://www.lukor.com/not-por/0512/28133913.htm --72.136.144.29 20:40, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] French Basque

If the page is going to be titled using the French term for Euskadi, it should mention that the Basque Country also includes areas of three French provinces, spreading along the coast as far as Biarritz. A revised map showing the whole Basque region, rather than just the Spanish section would be more accurate.

This article incorrectly speaks about countRy which indeed is partly in France. I can only second that Basques themselves (in Biarritz) say Basque country speaking about the whole region in France and Spain. IMHO the title should contain either "county" or "province" (something referring to the fact that it is only an administrative region in Spain and not to mess with Basque country), or as a direct translation "Basque autonomous community". The mess seems to come from Spanish terms - País Vasco (basque land/country) vs. Pueblo vasco (basque nation/people). -- Goldie (tell me) 14:56, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

As Vertical123 says below, the official name is in Spanish Comunidad Autónoma del País Vasco (Autonomous Community of the Basque Country), often shortened confusingly to Basque Country (País Vasco) or Basque Autonomous Community (Comunidad Autónoma Vasca), and often even to CAPV or CAV. The article should probably use all the time the ofical name or the shortening ACBC or BAC (that's the one I use in English), so the administrative region is not confused with the ethnic/historical one. --Sugaar 16:07, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

País Vasco is the official name in Spanish, País is Country and Vasco is Basque. There is no other way of going around. You can speak yes about a historical (and living) Basque nation which includes part of France too, but that is another article and not this one which is the political unit of spain called 'autonomous community or region', in this case we are talking about País Vasco .-Vertical123 20:56, 13 January 2006 (UTC) -

Ahem. One thing is the Autonomous Community of the Basque Country (comprising the Western Basque Country only) and another quite different one is the Basque Country, as historical, linguistical and self-percieved entity. Spaniards are not the only ones who can speak Spanish, you know, Basques ourselves do and call the whole country by that name when we speak in Spanish, French, Basque or English. --Sugaar 16:07, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed Spanish text

The following was bluntly pasted in the article. If you want to translate from Spanish, do or do not. There is no trying.

El nombre de País Vasco recoge dos conceptos diferentes. Por un lado, el País Vasco o Euskadi es una Comunidad Autónoma situada al norte de España, lindando al norte con el Mar Cantábrico y Francia, al sur con La Rioja, Castilla y León y la Comunidad Foral de Navarra, al oeste con Cantabria y al este con la Comunidad Foral de Navarra.

El nombre de País Vasco también recoge otra acepción, que es una región socio-cultural situada a ambos lados de los Pirineos ocupando, parcial o totalmente, territorios de Vizcaya, Guipúzcoa, Álava y Navarra en España, y de Zuberoa, Baja Navarra y Lapurdi en Francia, denominada Euskal Herria ("Pueblo Vasco") en vascuence. Véase el artículo Euskal Herria para más información a este respecto. A pesar de su relativamente pequeña población, el País Vasco concentra un gran volúmen de industrias y es una de las regiones más ricas de España. Pese a su cultura antigua y lenguas únicas (pre-románicas y de origen desconocido), el País Vasco siempre ha sido una pieza clave en la formación de España y su población. Los territorios de la región histórica de Castilla fueron repoblados en parte por vascos durante la Reconquista, así como contingentes leoneses y cántabros.

Euskal Autonomia Erkidegoa /
Comunidad Autónoma del País Vasco
140px|Bandera del País Vasco 90px|Escudo del País Vasco
(En detalle) (En detalle)
Imagen:ccaa-País_Vasco.png
ISO 3166-2 ES-PV
Capital Vitoria (Gasteiz)
Idiomas oficiales español y vascuence
Superficie

 - total
 - % de España

 Lugar nº 14

7.234 km²
1,4%
Población

 - Total (2003)
 - % de España
 - Densidad

 Lugar nº 7

2 108 281
5,0%
291,44/km²
Gentilicio

 - en español
 - en vascuence


vasco/a, vascongado/a.
euskal herritar, euskaldun
Lehendakari (presidente) Juan José Ibarretxe (PNV)
Estatuto de Autonomía 22 de diciembre de 1979

Representación parlamentaria
 - Congreso
 - Senado

 

19 escaños
3 escaños
Eusko Jaurlaritza / Gobierno Vasco

[edit] Provincias

[edit] Municipios

  • Lista de municipios del País Vasco.

[edit] Historia

Antiguamente se conocía a estas tres provincias como Provincias Vascongadas y cada una poseía una Diputación Foral.

El nacionalismo vasco considera este territorio parte de Euskal Herria.

[edit] Política

Partidos políticos con representación en el parlamento:

[edit] current state pathetic

This article's lack of information needs to be addressed immediately. This region has a rich, though complicated, history and culture, and a specialist should step up and include information beyond the Basque Country's favorite foods. Wikipedia has more information on thousands of pornstars than it does on the Basque Country. Get it goin'!

take a look at Basque Country (historical territory), Basque people and Category:Basque for the set of artciles encompassing Basque history and culture. Mtiedemann 15:19, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Official name

Are the official names right? Estatuto de Guernica Ley Orgánica 3/79, de 18 de diciembre de 1979:

Artículo 1. El Pueblo Vasco o Euskal-Herria, como expresión de su nacionalidad, para acceder a su autogobierno, se constituye en Comunidad Autónoma dentro del Estado español bajo la denominación de Euskadi o País Vasco, de acuerdo con la Constitución y con el presente Estatuto, que es su norma institucional básica.
Art. 2. Alava, Guipúzcoa y Vizcaya, así como Navarra, tienen derecho a formar parte de la Comunidad Autónoma del País Vasco.

Autonomi Estatutua

1.artikulua.-Euskal Herria, bere naziotasunaren adierazgarri, eta bere burujabetasuna iristeko, espainol Estatuaren barruan Komunitate Autonomo gisa eratzen da. Beronen izena Euskadi zein Euskal Herria izango da; eta Konstituzio eta Estatuto honetan adierazten direnak izango ditu oinarrizko instituzio-arautzat.
2.art.-Araba, Bizkaia eta Gipuzkoak eta era berean Nafarroak ere, Euskal Herriko Komunitate Autonomoaren partaide izateko eskubidea dute.

So Euskadi is official in Spanish and Basque and it should be Euskadiko Komunitate Autonomoa or Euskal Herriko Komunitate Autonomoa instead of Euskal Autonomia Erkidegoa. Has some later law changed the official name or is just de-facto practice?

yes it has. it is now EUSKAL AUTONOMIA ERKIDEGOA. (signed: a basque)

[edit] Requested move

Talk:Basque Country (autonomous community) (this talk page) → Talk:Basque Country autonomous community – The talk page has been separated from the appropriate article after a series of moves and redirects. Mtiedemann 15:38, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

I've aborted this nonsense; the article should be at "Basque Country (autonomous community)", *not* having parentheses around the dab term is sheer nonsense. —Nightstallion (?) 21:25, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History section

After reading Basque people it seems to me that this page's history should be expanded. It currently basically starts after Franco, but the Basque community (in both Spain and France) basically functioned as autonoumous regions in both countries for a long time before 1978. (From my reading, it seems to be sometime in the 16th century where France and Spain were established countries). I would recommend a better history section reflecting those times. -- Jeff3000 15:35, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Not really: except for the brief and incomplete autonomy of 1937, in the midst of the civil war, the Western Basque country was not unified except under Pamplona/Navarre. Under Castile (since 1200) the three provinces were separatedly autonomous, along with Navarre (since 1512-21).
The same happened in France, where the three northern provinces had separate statuses, Lower Navarre being united to Bearn under the name of Navarre, but Labourd and Soule being separated.
So the territories were autonomous but under different circumstances. --Sugaar 16:14, 8 October 2006 (UTC)


it is quite hard to really know the history since Franco did a great job destroying a lot of things and it should be known that basque is such a "multi face" language, what I mean is that even nowadays we need an oficial team making spelling corrections and taking the Basque language to a common language to all basque, since it changes quite a lot between towns (not only pronounciation but also complete words). Since it was forbidden to speak basque, and basque people have always been living in farm kind of houses not really attending "school", written documents before franco era are rare. And taking history lessons from the "enemy" (spain for quite a long time) is not a good idea, because it should probably be unaccurate.

[edit] Anachronisms

Not anachronisms in this article as such, but as a result of links to it.

I'm just wondering: it seems odd to me when an article like Pierre Loti or War of the Quadruple Alliance refers to "Basque Country" and disambiguates it to Basque Country (autonomous community). Obviously, there was no such entity in the relevant period: it was the Provincias Vascongadas. I'm open to suggestions; my own suggestion would be to place that name a little higher in this article and/or to bold it. - Jmabel | Talk 03:08, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

The problem is that Basque Country (historical territory) also doesn't fit for those disambiguations either, because they are referring to the region in Spain (which was a country by then). My understanding of the situation (which is very limited) is that while the Basque region in Spain was not officially called an autonomous community, it basically acted as a autonomous community within Spain, and thus the disambiguation to Basque Country (autonomous community) is more appropriate. -- Jeff3000 04:09, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
And that's why I noted in the above section there should be an expansion of the history; if there was an expansion, it would make it much more relevent to the articles that are linking here. -- Jeff3000 04:11, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Grammar wierdness

"The Basque Government used the "Laurak Bat", which included the arms of Navarre, as its symbol for many years. Yet tribunals ruled in favor of Navarre and the Basque Government replaced it with an empty red field."

What did the article say about Navarre? Where did the article say that Navarre wanted an empty red field? This is totally illogical. -Slash- 23:42, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

The government of Navarre, that is Spanish nationalist, sued the BAC on the use of their coat of arms. As Spanish tribunals gave them the reason (independently that all the BAC was once part of Pamplona/Navarre and that the Spanish constitution and the Basque and Navarrese statutes explicitly provide for a possible incorporation of Navarre to the BAC) and the BAC authorities replaced it by an empty red field. I think it's clear: they made it a "copyright" issue - any wikipedian should understand that. ;) --Sugaar (talk) 17:01, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Sugaar, this last comment of yours, is it about the article or about your own particular "political" opinion? I'm referring to the description you give of the government of Navarre or the reasons used in their demand for removal ("copyright"). Any proper opinion to give about that topic? Escorial82 (talk) 08:06, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
It's an explanation of what happened. Regarding to the supposed "grammar weirdness" I understand the sentence perfectly (it's not my work anyhow) but if you think you can write it more clearly, please go ahead and improve it. --Sugaar (talk) 08:41, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Info needed

Some major information, such as geography, climate, commerce, landmarks, culture, and such should be included. -Slash- 00:27, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree, really poor page, very little information about the culture and tourism. Mark us street Nov 22th 2006
Yes, and almost two years after is still pathetic... too much politics, it happens a lot in this land. We talk about politics and forget the important things... I may make an effort and create the so needed geographical and cultural information, but meanwhile you can check the complete information about Basque mountains and Biscay to get a better picture. David (talk) 10:26, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ibarretxe's plan

"was rejected without debate in the Spanish Corte"

That say and the beginning and is false, the plan was debated and then rejected, i will change it.

-Fco

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Euskadi escudo.png

Image:Euskadi escudo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 10:14, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

I was going to ask "are you retarded?" but obviously the answer is "I am a bot". How come the schuteon of the autonomous community dealt with in this article is not fair use? Someon deactivate this bot, please. --Sugaar (talk) 07:17, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edit war around locator map

Let's see if we can get a consensus on that: there's been an ongoing edit war about this rather minor issue and it can't keep going on. We need a consensus or at least a majority stand.

The two maps are:

Personally I cleary prefer the first one because it shows the continuity of the coast, France and Portugal, while the other makes Spain look like an island without context. Additionally it shows the location within the largest context of SW Europe, what can be of help for some people. Finally it also has a larger view of the BAC as whole. Overall the first one seems better quality.

I'd like to hear others' opinions instead of edit-warring without a rationale. --Sugaar (talk) 07:44, 26 December 2007 (UTC)


  • The first one is the best, no doubt. David (talk) 08:29, 27 December 2007 (UTC)