Wikipedia:Barnstar and award proposals/Archive5

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< Wikipedia:Barnstar and award proposals

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

01 – 03 – Archive 05

1 Babel Barnstar for Translation
2 Comics barnstar (result: add to PUA)

Babel Barnstar for Translation

Babel Barnstar for Translation by paul klenk. This image is a composite of three GFDL images: Tower of Babel, Chrysler building, and a barnstar. paul klenk will use this as a Personal user award.

Are you a designer? We could use a Babel Barnstar for those jumping in to help translate pages; it should incorporate the Tower of Babel into the design. I have received speedy and gracious help in the past 48 hours, as my new international user pages at de:wiki, fr:wiki, nl:wiki, no:wiki, pt:wiki, it:wiki, fi:wiki, nn:wiki, da:wiki, have been translated by users at those sites. I was quite astonished. The German trans. was provided by a brand new user; his work on my page were his 2nd and 3rd edits. He didn't even have a page of his own yet! Needless to say, I have handed out many generic barnstars; the recipients have been deighted to find them on their pages.

When my pages at ja:wiki, zh:wiki, ~~sv:wiki~~ (done and awarded), pl:wiki, es:wiki and ru:wiki are translated, I would love to have a new Babel Barnstar ready for them.

I don't have good enough software to create a high quality image, but I will play around and place an example here. This award doesn't have to be a barnstar, of coure; I could simply adapt an existing Babel picture into an award. But a Babel Barnstar would be great.

Anyone wanna jump in?

paul klenk ^talk, International Man of Mystery 12:23, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

I think this was proposed before, I need to find the discussion, though. Zach (Sound Off) 17:45, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Okay, Zach, let's you and me stay on it and together we'll get it done. paul klenk ^talk 18:45, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

This was the previous debate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Barnstar_and_award_proposals/Archive3#Interlingual-Interwiki_barnstar. Zach (Sound Off) 18:50, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Zach, ~~here~~ above is a rough draft of something I came up with. I'll use this as "my" barnstar/babel award while something better is being created or considered. paul klenk ^talk 19:32, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Fine by me, but since many of our Barnstar regulars are away, this has to be unofficial for now. Zach (Sound Off) 19:39, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh, certainly. I have added it to the Personal user awards page. paul klenk ^talk

Image proposed in first discussion: rekindled.

I like the idea for this Barnstar. The previous discussion yielded no results because people gradually lost interest and abandoned the discussion — which unfortunately happens quite often around here (I was myself away from this forum back when the original proposal was discussed, and so I never participated in it). I support this idea, and hope it will get through this time around. In fact, I could propose (or repropose) an image that was suggested in the original discussion, which I'm posting here now. Incidentally, I'll be leaving on a 20-day wikibreak and should be back on the 23rd or the 24th, so I probably won't be able to post here again (in fact, this one might very well be my last post before my break). I hope I'll see this award instated when I return. Cheers, Redux 00:37, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh, and suggestions for the name: The Babelic Barnstar, or The Barnstar of WikiBabel, or The Babel Barnstar, or even (and finally): The Barnstar of Babel. If I had to choose from these, I'd go with the first one (The Babelic Barnstar). Redux 00:45, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I personally like the Babelic Barnstar. Zach (Sound Off) 00:46, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I thought it had a nice ring to it. The other suggestions were just so there'd be more to choose from (we never know it someone else will be offering other possible names). What about the image? I know it sort of "favors" five countries, but still... If someone has the skills (and the patience), it could also be interesting to have a Barnstar inside a circle, which would be made of flags — and that would accommodate many more flags than this image does... Redux 00:53, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

But the problem is that so many languages are not represented by a flag, so that might not be possible. Zach (Sound Off) 01:04, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

That's true, but it might not be possible to come up with something absolutely universal, that will evoke all languages and no countries specifically. Let's see what other images will come up in this discussion, but if nothing better comes along, we just might have to settle for a representative amount of flags. If we were to abandon the whole flag notion, perhaps the Biblical tower itself might be a good idea, but I didn't think that Paul's first proposition would be ideal, mixing the Tower of Babel with a contemporary building — especially since, if we don't want to evoke any country (ies), it would be difficult to create composites with world famous skyscrapers, which are normally closely associated with their countries. Maybe we could have a Barnstar (or the Wikipedia logo, if this is not to be a Barnstar) hovering over the Tower of Babel, like some sort of guiding star? Redux 02:17, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Or just have a photo of the drawing of Babel and call it a Wikiaward. We do not have to stick a barnstar on everything. On a side note, it is very, very hard to create official Barnstars now. Zach (Sound Off) 02:40, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

That could be. Although if we were to just take a drawing of the Tower and call it our award, it might be too direct an association. I would not object it though. I believe it could work. If we throw out the flag thing, it does get difficult to work in a Barnstar in a convincing, interesting manner. It would be nice to get more input on this though, but this forum is just too unstable in terms of the people participating in discussions. On the other hand, it's actually somewhat positive that we might also be getting to a point where we don't need to create new Barnstars all the time. It wouldn't be useful to end up with tens of Barnstars that no one can keep track of — err, actually we are already there, so let's just say that it's best if doesn't get too much worse.
In this case, though, if Paul agrees with the idea of just having the image of the Tower of Babel be the actual award, we might be able to wrap this at it, unless someone else (or Paul himself) comes up with a significant suggestion for a third way. If not, we could just call it The Babelic Award, or The Babelic WikiAward, or The Award of Babel, or even the simpler The Babel Award. Redux 03:22, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Two things:

1. Is there any particular reason why the award (whatever form it takes) must contain a reference to the word "Babel"? As a Biblical reference, this seems rather counterintuitive (given that God's act was the exact opposite of a translator's goal), and as a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy reference, it's awfully specific and somewhat arcane. I much prefer the previously proposed "Interlingual Barnstar."

2. Of the image candidates from the earlier discussion, this one (by Sango123) is my favorite:

That's beautiful, and it conveys an inclusive, "worldwide" connotation. —Lifeisunfair 04:08, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, at this point everything is up for discussion/consideration. The image looks good too. And there's no reason why it would "have to" be called "Babel something". But I thought that the word "Babel" was completely usable: 1) Because of Wikipedia:Babel, which is a highly visible and successful project, and which uses the word and, AFAIK, no one has complained about it being too Biblical or anything (at least nothing that was serious enough to warrant a revision of the project's name; or am I wrong?). 2) And this is part of the reason why "Babel" can be used with ease, it's that, although originating in a Biblical story, "Babel" has grown passed the Biblical sense, it has become idiomatic (much like saying "good Samaritan", or "throwing the first rock"). Basically, I see no problems in using "Babel" on account of it being too Christian, or because of God's intent in the Biblical story. Redux 04:36, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

As Paul notes below, the Biblical reference is from the Old Testament, so it's associated with both Judaism and Christianity. (For the record, I'm Jewish.) I'm familiar with Wikipedia:Babel (and I don't object to fact that the origin of its name is Biblical in nature, nor would I object to a Wikipedia project name that references a different religion's holy scripture), but its purpose (dividing people's user pages into various language categories) more logically (IMHO) relates to the word "Babel."

As for "Babel" becoming idiomatic, I'll take your word for that. I haven't personally encountered its use beyond the Biblical connotation, the related Douglas Adams connotation (which actually fits the "translation" theme, but is not directly referenced) and the aforementioned (and equally related) Wikipedia connotation.

Though I hadn't thought about it, the fact that the Biblical reference is Judeo-Christian in nature is a valid consideration for an award that's intended to extend to other languages' Wikipedias (some of which are used predominantly by people of other religions). I always welcome exposure to outside cultures, but I suppose that this could be perceived as an endorsement of one set of religions over all others. (I wouldn't view it in that context, but others might.)

My primary concern, however, is that I don't perceive the "Babel" reference as evocative of the concept of "translation." The "multiple languages" element certainly is present, but I'm of the opinion that these awards should be assigned the most straightforward, descriptive, unambiguous names possible. (Even "The Translator's Barnstar" would be sensible.)

Of course, all of this is merely my 2¢. —Lifeisunfair 12:00, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

From paul klenk ^talk

Thank you all for rejoining this discussion. It is a pleasure to hear your ideas. My opinions:

Keep the name simple, like "Babel Barnstar". "Babelic Barnstar" sounds a bit precious or pretentious. "Barnstar of WikiBabel" is okay, only if the term "WikiBabel" (short for Wikipedia:Babel) is in widespread use here; if it isn't, let's not coin a neologism for an award. If WikiBabel is in use, let's put in a "wiki" colon: "Wiki:Babel".
Sango's globe image is really beautiful, and my favorite. The "rotating globe" as a classroom tool also reflects the educational aspect of Wikipedia. And the "earth" connotes the idea in the Genesis text of dispersing people "over the whole earth" (see my aside, below).
Do not use flags; they confuse countries with languages. Wikipedia does not have "country" sites, we have "language" sites, and we want to protect this idea. Even "made-up" flags or "international" flags confuse this issue. This is a language award.
Do not use the U.N. laurels; it confuses our mission with theirs, and appears to pay homage to it, and it (again) appears on its flag. The U.N. is a council of representative countries (again, Babel is about languages, not countries). The U.N. is controversial, it is political, it is corrupt, it has strong loyalists and detractors. It is too much-loved and much-hated to appear in "official" WP anything. (Sorry, Redux, if my comments are not very diplomatic -- I actually think the image itself is quite beautiful and well executed, and am glad you shared it. :-))
A tongue would also be a great icon for language, but I don't have the time or skill to create something, and I like the globe too much. I would love to see a Wikipedia with a sense of humor get creative with it.
"Babel" is okay; don't worry about its Biblical roots.
- An aside: Actually, Babel is not originally Christian, per se, but Jewish, as the account appeared in Genesis 11. Regarding God's intent as "opposite" of a translator: That's a very cool observation, Life, and I never thought of it that way. However, in the Biblical account, God's actual intent in confusing language was to scatter everyone so the entire globe would be populated. It was the mechanism to do this. God had actually commanded mankind to do scatter ("be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth"), but mankind disobeyed Him, and did the opposite -- he gathered together in one place ...("lest we be dispersed over the face of the whole earth..."), on the Babel plain where its eponymous tower was being built. By confusing the languages, God forced everyone to split up into little groups and scurry to find their own exclusive homelands ("...And from there the LORD dispersed them over the face of all the earth..."). Ironically, the desire to translate the Bible for world use has made Christians very large players in the historial practice of translating languages. So now the Babel account (as part of the Bible) is now the most translated text in human history. Biblical translators have not only broken much ground by creating many of the first and highest quality translations, they have also helped create many written languages for people groups who never before had a written language or alphabet. This was in response to another command, this one by Jesus Christ, given to his Jewish followers: "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation..."
I will continue to use my creation as a Personal user award (it is now in the gallery). Since I am from New York City, I added the Chrysler building. If others want to use this from time to time, feel free. I apologize to anyone in advance who objects to its use of the barnstar; I will make it clear when presenting it that is is mine, not WP's. And do stop by some of my language sites; the translations provided by others are very cool. You can launch from my user page. paul klenk ^talk 09:45, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

1. I strongly agree that the image should convey a "global" connotation, not an "international" one. What better likeness than that of a globe? And indeed, that's one of the nicest looking Barnstar images that I've seen.

2. Note that I referred not to God's "intent," but to God's "act." Both, however, relate to the concept of separation, which directly opposes the objective of translation. It's true that the Bible has played a significant role in the translation and development of written languages, but the "Babel" reference is considerably more specific. —Lifeisunfair 12:00, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm almost leaving, but still have time for one last comment. So:
1) The globe image looks great to me.
2) Indeed, my reference to Babel as being Christian (excluding the Jewish origin) was more due to the fact that it was [very] late when I was writing that. Certainly, if the [perceived] religious connotation may become a problem, it's best to avoid it altogether. And indeed, it is a complicating factor that the purpose of the award is to recognize those who help people understand each other better, not divide and create confusion (as it happened in the Biblical Babel).
on a cultural note, it's a somewhat common expression, at least in my experience, to say, for instance, of a place where there's people from all kinds of backgrounds/walks of life: this is a Babel of XXX.
3)I don't quite have the time to do the research now, but if we want to find a name that escapes the obvious (as in The Translator Award/Barnstar), perhaps we could look for, say, a famous tool of translation, or maybe some individual who might have become famous for speaking an unsually large number of languages (I know of a Lebanese naturalized Brazilian guy who speaks 52 languages). Something along those lines...
I'll check back when I return from my break (unless someone posts here within the next half hour). Regards, Redux 16:06, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

If we wanted to incorporate a famous tool of translation, the Rosetta Stone would be an appropriate choice. —Lifeisunfair 23:45, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

The Rosetta Barnstar

Huh? What did you people do when I was out? +_+ Just one day and it measures 4 full-screens????? Deryc k C. 16:27, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I appreciate the concern/wish to avoid use of the word Babel, but allow me to point out that 1] use of the word "Babel" is already fully established and widespread on Wikipedia, with respect to which language people speak, so it is apropos, and 2] it has fabulous euphonic appeal ("Babel Barnstar"). Having said that, of course I would not be offended if another word were used. paul klenk ^talk

As I mentioned, the current use of the word "Babel" on Wikipedia is fairly consistent with the Biblical connotation, because it refers to a means of dividing people's user pages by the languages that they read. The connection between the word "Babel" and multiple languages is obvious, but I don't believe that the concept of translation (or even enhanced communication) is conveyed. —Lifeisunfair 23:45, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I rather like the Rosetta version... although it's a tad big. --AllyUnion (talk) 06:33, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Ally, we also have the Barnstar of National Merit, which the image for the award is also about the size of this, maybe longer. The size does not bother me, it looks good. Zach (Sound Off) 13:18, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

For me, whenever I hear "Babel," I think more of the connotation of many languages than Old Testament that was doomed by God. So I don't have a problem with the use of that world. And Sango123's image is absolutely delicious, again. Too bad she's away right now. Bratsche^{talk | Esperanza} 21:44, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Since it's pretty much all about translation, I'd be in favor of calling it the "translation barnstar". - Mgm|^(talk) 22:31, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
I'm also strongly in favour of the Rosetta stone idea, but agree with AllyUnion that at the moment it is a little large. However, since the original stone has broken edges, it would probably be OK if the embossed barnstar had some of its tips broken off too. The might make it easier to shrink the award down to standard barnstar size. -- Solipsist 15:04, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

The Rosetta Barnstar (reduced to the approximate cubic size of the original barnstar)

How about simply shrinking down the existing design? —Lifeisunfair 15:39, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

I like the Rosetta image, but the name Barnstar of Babel flows off the tongue better (I agree that "Babelic" is pretentious). Unfortunately, the rosetta image at its reduced size becomes somewhat difficult to tell what it's supposed to be... nae'blis _(talk) 16:32, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

"I like the Rosetta image, but the name Barnstar of Babel flows off the tongue better"

But does it logically convey the award's meaning? In my opinion, it doesn't.

"Unfortunately, the rosetta image at its reduced size becomes somewhat difficult to tell what it's supposed to be..."

This was a concern of mine when I created the image (which is why I initially used the 130x190 size). The 89x130 version looks fine on my screen (a 15" LCD at the relatively high 1400x1050 resolution — which means that it's smaller for me than it is for most people), but a compromise size (somewhere in between these two) certainly is an option. —Lifeisunfair 16:51, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Per the advice of Sango123 (who has contacted the participants in this discussion), I'd like to try to revive the proposal. Irrespective of which name or design is used, I feel that outstanding Wikipedia translators deserve a dedicated barnstar. I suggest that we conduct a straw poll to determine a consensus regarding the general concept, and then return to the specifics (and possibly conduct an additional vote) if sufficient backing exists. —Lifeisunfair 15:49, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Name

I am all for a "Interlingual Barnstar", the "babel" barnstar will give a confusing message. While as a wikipedian I clearly understand what we mean by babel, a foreigner would to say the least would be confused. --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 10:09, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

How should it look

Flags, UN flag these all are nice but this doesnt cover the languages. Non UN member states do exist, this doesnt mean people dont live there. Besides countries and flags have changed in the past, also some languages dont come with a flag. We do not have a roman empier, there exists a Latin language wikipedia. The globe is nice because in the future 5000 years the "look" of the planet should not change much unless a planetary catastrophy happens and even then the barnstar wouldn't matter... :P. The Earth should rotate in the background so every part of earth is visible (to evade conflicts and to satisfy my desire for animations). --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 10:09, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Both the Interlingual Barnstar (I would call it "multilingual barnstar") and the Rosetta Barnstar have their place. The latter seems appropriate for direct translations -- a very different beast from original content creation in many languages. The former would be appopriate for broader multilingual and interlingual efforts. Can we add both of these? They are beautiful and appropriate. +sj + 00:52, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Was just going to say something to the extent, thanks! So hard for me to decide between the Rosetta and the Globe, I so like both. The Globe is such a beautiful piece of work already, and with added animation, mmmm! If we were to choose the Rosetta, could we keep the Globe for something else perhaps? (like, for successful mediation of nationalistically-based edit wars, or for successful ambassador activity, or for translations of formal content such like official policies or help, etc. ). I'd compliment, profusely, Paul Klenk's Babel Tower as well... but that one's been put to good use already :) so there should not be any concern about having that piece of work underappreciated. - Introvert ^talk 01:08, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Votes

The general concept of a barnstar that rewards outstanding Wikipedia translation efforts:

Support. —Lifeisunfair 15:49, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
Support – I like this idea quite a bit. ~~I recommend as the image, however, the UN image above, except with a white star instead of the explosion of flag colors.~~ Nevermind - I see that was discussed. – Clockwork Soul 15:58, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
Support - you know it makes sense. -- Solipsist 19:47, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
Support --AllyUnion (talk) 20:00, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
Support - Should we just restart the discussion clean below the straw poll (possibly in a subheading, for the sake of editing sanity)? nae'blis _(talk) 01:16, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, I also like the Rosetta stone barnstar the best (at either size), essentially in line with Drini's comments below. nae'blis _(talk) 17:56, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
Support--Lectonar 08:55, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Btw, I like the small Rosetta-stone design, and would opt for naming it The Translator's Barnstar or something to that extent, although I must admit that Babel Barnstar would be in line with Wikipedia:Babel. Lectonar 12:19, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I still don't see any obvious connection between "Babel" and "translation." Wikipedia:Babel is about separating users by language, a context similar to that of the Bible. This barnstar rewards the opposite — the act of bringing speakers of different languages together. —Lifeisunfair 17:36, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

No, as I see it, wikibabel isn't about separating users by language (you might say it's just a categorization), but bringing them together for one great goal, namely this encyclopedia; and some of them just choose to bring themselves in in contributing in different languages. Lectonar 10:22, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

I meant "separating" not in a negative sense, but in the sense that Wikipedia:Babel is a means of placing users into separate categories, for the purpose of identifying the separate languages that they speak (and the extent to which they speak them), thereby fostering communication with other speakers of said languages. Conversely, a translator's goal is to effectively erase such distinctions, enabling people to communicate with speakers of languages other than their own. —Lifeisunfair 11:42, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

I think we're on the same line here, but have different connotations regarding the use of babel per se; let's leave it at that, this poll is only about the creation of the barnstar category...Cheers.--Lectonar 12:15, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Support --The Hooded Man 13:06, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I like the small rosetta stone and 'Babelic Barnstar', just because it's fun to say. I've also added the subheading for the sake of my own sanity, if no one else minds.

Support Sounds grand. I like the image with the globe, however my first connotation with that would be that's it's a barnstar for geography. I also thought of a tongue maybe. But the Rosetta stone is cool too. Great idea though, let's keep this up.. Gryffindor 13:52, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Regarding the globe image, I've been thinking the same thing. It's beautiful, but I'd like to see it used as "the Geography Barnstar" (or something similar), spun off from the Barnstar of National Merit (which "may also be awarded to those who create a particularly fine article regarding geography," but doesn't appear to be used in this manner). —Lifeisunfair 17:36, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I totally agree with you, the geography one is beautiful, but should be used for that. I am thrilled with the Rosetta stone, it's perfect for the translation (Babel?) Barnstar. How many more votes are required, is anyone familiar with the technicalities? Gryffindor 00:58, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

This is a straw poll — an informal means of gauging opinion. At this point, it's abundantly clear that the proposal has ample support. —Lifeisunfair 01:07, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Support - I like this idea, and the Rosetta Barnstar is quite classy. - Maaya 14:16, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
Support. Absolutely a good idea. --D e ath phoenix 17:40, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
Support. Much of Wikipedia's best work comes through translation. So much of what can be mundane or well-known in one culture can be a revalation in another. March on, Ampelmännchen!--Pharos 08:32, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

BTW, since everyone else is voicing their opinion here, I should also state my support for the Rosetta Barnstar, as it's directly and elegantly appropriate to the ideal of translation.--Pharos 01:11, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Support Libera me barnstar! --Cool Cat^Talk|@ 10:14, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
Support the general concept; all the suggested images have their pluses. The Rosetta looks fantastic, has the right connotations, and is my favourite. Colonel Tom 10:27, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
Support, as I said before, translations need to be recognized with a barnstar, so I'm all for this proposal. Personally, I like the Rosetta Stone version best. But with my interest in ancient Egypt, I'm probably biased in that regard. - Mgm|^(talk) 20:27, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
Support Especially like the Rosetta barnstar. The towers one I dislike since it was huge, the flags one becuase as was pointed language != country. The globe is ok, but not very original. The Rosetta one is elegant and it's related about a significant event that helped us understand a language. -- ( drini's _vandalproof page ☎ ) 00:22, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
Support All of the images are pretty, but I too think that the Rosetta barnstar is most appropriate.Franzeska 17:46, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
Support! hard to decide between all the beautiful images... the Rosetta Barnstar seems most appropriate. Would it be worth trying to set the size for the Rosetta Barnstar at somewhere in the middle, say, 104x150 perhaps? - Introvert ^talk 23:17, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
Strong support. Support enough for two different barnstars... both Rosetta and Interlingual (or better yet, call it 'multilingual') +sj + 00:52, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity: what would you use the interlingual one for? For speaking multiple languages (nudge, nudge!) Lectonar 08:33, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't quite get that one either. I thought this was only supposed to be for translations? Gryffindor

If my reading is correct, the first is for translating an article from one language to another; the second is for starting an article in two or more different language Wikipedias. imo, second one could cause a lot of confusion and can be subsumed under the first. --Gurubrahma 16:44, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

But could we judge that; this is the English wikipedia, and the starting of another article in another wiki wouldn't warrant a barnstar here, imho Lectonar 07:47, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Consensus

The consensus seems to be in favor of the Rosetta Stone image (smaller version?), and a name of the Rosetta Barnstar. Any thoughts? Sango 123 (talk) 01:30, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

hm, let's see maybe

Babel Barnstar

Rosetta Barnstar

Translation Barnstar

? Gryffindor 01:35, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Sj has suggested that we introduce two new barnstars — one for translation, and one for the creation of original content in multiple languages. I believe that the Rosetta Barnstar (image and name) could cover both, because the Rosetta Stone is a bilingual artifact that was used as a translation tool. —Lifeisunfair 01:54, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

I'll opt for Rosetta Barnstar (small image) for translation work Lectonar 07:49, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
Rosetta Barnstar. My preference for the size is a little bigger than the small one, perhaps around 104x150px (this is halfway between the large and the small rosetta stars.). For translation work, both for direct translation such as from WP:TIE or for the rescue-mode puzzle-me-outs like some (if not most) of the WP:PNT. - Introvert ^talk 09:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I too supported the suggestion that we keep the Globe star as well. I think this beautiful piece of work is so worth keeping. Can use it for multicultural / multilingual activity other than translation. For example, for mediation of conflicts with nationalistic bias; tough stuff. (this idea might be out of scope just now; food for thought then perhaps?) - Introvert ^talk 09:52, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree that the globe image is terrific, and absolutely should be used for something. Perhaps we could have a barnstar for users who continually expand articles with limited geographic scope. —Lifeisunfair 17:32, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

The Rosetta Barnstar (100x146 pixels)

How about 100x146 pixels? —Lifeisunfair 17:32, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Yay :) if you ask me... looks great, perfect size! - Introvert ^talk 02:00, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Rosetta Barnstar. --Nlu 18:45, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
Rosetta Barnstar gets my support, or a combination maybe? like Rosetta Translation Barnstar. Also guys, please post the discussion about the globe image somewhere else, otherwise this will get totally confusing. I like the image of the globe as well, but again I think it would be better for something about geography or the likes.... Gryffindor 19:15, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
I like Rosetta Barnstar at the larger size, but if Wp convention dictates we keep it under a certain pixel size, the smaller is not bad either. nae'blis _(talk) 19:41, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
Rosetta Barnstar and 100x146 star looks about right. -- Solipsist 22:58, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Final Proposal

Okay, we seem to be ready for a final proposal! :) Here it is:

The Rosetta Barnstar

Category: General Barnstars

The Rosetta Barnstar may be given to any editor who exhibits outstanding translation efforts on Wikipedia.

This award was introduced on June 1, 2005 by Harðor and was designed by David Levy.

If there are no objections, I will archive this discussion and move the Rosetta Barnstar to Wikipedia:Barnstars on Wikipedia. Sango 123 (talk) 18:28, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

I believe that Harðor should be credited with the award's introduction, which occurred on June 1. —Lifeisunfair 18:53, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Fixed. Thanks! Sango 123 (talk) 18:59, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

I support this final version, so if you want to tuck this one to bed, go right ahead. Zach ^{(Smack Back)} 08:28, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Looks like a winner to me. Support. -- nae'blis _(talk) 19:17, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

Support. Seems like an awesome idea.

Soothing R 18:14, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Back-Scratching Barnstar

I propose my back scratching barnstar (viewable at Wikipedia:Personal_user_awards, although someone with more photoshop skill is very welcome to make a better image), as a sort of community building barnstar, based on the phrase "I'll scratch your back if you'll scratch mine". It is intended that if a wikipedian has done something that you like, you leave this on their page to make a promise to scratch their back in the future. Additonally, it would be nice if its giving was reciprocated - after all, there's no rule saying you can't have five hundred barn stars, it just doesn't seem to be the convention yet.

In my opinion, good wiki-deeds should be done for the sake of improving Wikipedia and/or being a nice person — not in repayment for the good wiki-deeds of others. Likewise, an award (such as a barnstar) should bestowed upon someone because he/she deserves it — not because he/she has given someone else an award. (It is, however, appropriate to exchange tokens of good will or friendship in this manner.) —Lifeisunfair 21:27, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I think there could be many uses for the B.S. Barnstar, not just back-scratching. paul klenk ^talk 21:49, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Don't we have the Wikithanks that covers this? Zach (Sound Off) 23:06, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I see it as a personal promise. Like blood brothers, but less messy. It's easy to say that people should be working for the wikigood (to coin a phrase, although I don't doubt it's been coined before), but this is psychologically sound for almost creating an obligation. --Spankthecrumpet 00:13, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I still think this is a bad idea, since this could be the formation of "groups" that could, effectively, change the whole Wikistructure. I cast oppose for this barnstar to become official. Zach (Sound Off) 23:19, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

I concur. To formalize what I wrote above, I also vote oppose. —Lifeisunfair 00:14, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

I think it's fine as a personal user award; it doesn't need to be anything official. paul klenk ^talk

I think that this is an excellent idea personally, and am going to award you one myself. --Sockpuppetofspankthecrumpet 14:34, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm thinking this award indeed has "other uses", but it seems to be most singularly related to the "B***S*** meaning in its current incarnation - I mean, give an award to get an award? That's not really the point... Oppose as an official Barnstar; as a personal award, it seems a fine idea, if ill-designed (the image does not immediately call to mind the award). nae'blis _(talk) 16:27, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, unfortunately I have neither the editing skills nor the imagination to create a better logo... would anyone like to help? Spankthecrumpet 12:11, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

What about "The Karma" barnstar? (Can also have second meaning: "You vandalise my user page, I block you indefinitely, see, karma. Have a nice day"). Or the "touché" award? Or the "Right back at you" award. Or the......... Spawn Man 04:54, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Don't blame me... Blame whoever introduced more than one award ;) Spankthecrumpet 12:19, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

I never said I was blaming anyone....Spawn Man 01:29, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

I think the general response has been in opposition to this proposal. If no one objects, I'll archive and close this discussion within a week. Sango 123 (talk) 00:53, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

The Rising Star Barnstar

I propose creating a barnstar for: "Users whose dedication and accomplishments show wisdom and maturity far beyond their years." Basically, I am looking to create a special award because I want to acknowledge the contributions of two 15 year old admins and a 13 year old bureaucrat, but I am sure there are other youthful contributors that have had a significant impact on the project as well. In my mind, I have an image of a barnstar (perhaps somewhat yellowed) rising in a arc with a comet like tail, but I haven't tried to create such an image yet. Dragons flight 18:56, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

13 year old bureaucrat? Who's that? Deryc k C. 17:30, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Probably User:Ilyanep, although he's 14 now according to his userpage. CTOAGN 18:39, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

But personal, I think this award will divide users based on age, which I think is a bad idea. We should treat everyone as equals on here, regardless of age. Oppose Zach (Sound Off) 20:14, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Oppose, I agree with Zscout/zach on this... It would create to much friction between young & old, unless you created a golden oldy award... But how many older persons would want to be called "old", not many let me tell you.... Spawn Man 03:06, 11 October 2005 (UTC)BTW, I'm 14, so this counts as a "younger" view of your idea.

Concur with Zach and Spawn Man. Younger users may even find it disparaging. A regular barnstar or personally designed award could work effectively for this one. Sango 123 (talk) 00:47, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for Voting award

I would like to see an award that recently elected admins can give out to people who have voted for them, or another idea, for the people who nominated them. It could have like a tick in the middle of a barn star, (not the insect tick, the drawn tick), like you have on election papers when voting. It would allow the new admin to give something back to the people & make the voters want to vote again, thus making more people to begin to vote more often. This would make better represented voting selections. Although I have a clear image in mind, I doubt I could do anything on graphics etc. I hope this gets read & someone decides to make it.... Thanks...Spawn Man 03:03, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

"Thanks for voting!" ;-)

We already have such an award, but when you want to hand it out, you'll need the user's PayPal account. paul klenk ^talk 03:32, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

No, this award is a bad idea. Encouraging voters cannot be good, since VotingIsEvil. We try not to vote on every little thing that comes to the table, but rather establish consensus. If you want to thank a RfA supporter, or nominator, a WikiThanks or barnstar will do just fine. Bratsche^{talk | Esperanza} 03:41, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Someone has political issues..... However, I'd like Zach's thoughts on it... Also, I'm not paying to use a barnstar... I still think it's a good idea, for, as I said, Admins to give to the people who nominated them... It wouldn't take much time to make. Plus, if you don't want to remake a barnstar, then why are you creating the rosetta barnstar? Shouldn't you just keep the sociology barn star? NO. Exactly my point, we should try & create a free barnstar which thanks nominators, even if we do have a similar one... Spawn Man 04:50, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

The concept is already being employed by a percentage new administrators through a warm thank-you message (sometimes accompanied by a WikiThanks flower) on the voters' talk pages. An award that openly expresses gratitude to users for voting may even encourage sheep votes. In short, I don't think there's a need to make this one official, but it could have a spot at WP:PUA. Sango 123 (talk) 00:41, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

The Son of Jimbo Award

This is probably a PUA, but I thought i'd run it by you guys regardless. Karmafist 18:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Yep, a highly qualified candidate for WP:PUA. :) Sango 123 (talk) 00:57, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Wikimedia Commons

Also, I request we could try to send our Barnstar images (that are finalized) to the Wikimedia Commons. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 23:15, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

I'd support. It's already been done for the image of the BoNM. Regards, Redux 23:31, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Once we get full support for this idea, I will do a walkthrough on what needs to be done. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 02:35, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Support. Deryc k C. - the very original one

D e ryc k C. - the esperanza-enriched one :06:09:33, 2005-09-03 (UTC)

Zscout, I guess you might as well go ahead with your proposal, it doesn't look like anyone else is going to be posting their opinion here. Since all of those who did post agreed with you, I believe there's no impediment to moving the images as you wanted. Regards, Redux 20:15, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Ok, what needs to be done is just delete the page and restore the last copy. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 22:05, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Gamer/Gaming Barnstar

The Gamer Barnstar or Gaming Barnstar (probably the latter) would be awarded to, as the name implies, someone who makes a particularly fine contribution in the field of computer and video games; or someone who helps elevate a computer/video game article to featured status. I'm actually a bit short on ideas for the Barnstar's design, although my initial thought was to put Mario or some other famous gaming icon on top of the standard Barnstar, but of course that would probably be a copyvio. Then I tried putting Gamepad_Icon.png on top of Barnstar.png. Made in Appleworks 6, doesn't look good :/ So, I'm not quite sure what it would look like; maybe a picture of a game console cropped to be shaped like a star. Thoughts? (on the award idea and possible images) -- gakon⁵ (talk) 00:30, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

I personally support the proposal, but do you really think that there are many people who deserve this award that it has to be made a barnstar? Deryc k C. 08:09, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Discussion on this award has been at a standstill for almost a month. If no attempts at reviving the Gaming Barnstar are made within a week, it will be archived. Thanks, Sango 123 (talk) 15:17, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I say let it be archived. This barnstar is too specific enough to really warrant its own official barnstar. --D e ath phoenix 16:26, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

The Manstar

The Manstar was originally added to Template:Barnstars, but I'm opening it up for discussion. Please comment as you see fit. Thanks, Sango 123 (talk) 18:19, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Support. There is a tragic lack of real men on Wikipedia today. Extraordinary feats of manliness should be recognized and commended. -Silence 01:14, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Hello, all. Long time. I'm going to risk sounding a bit blunt on this one, but the of a "manstar" idea seems a bad one. The text of the star reads that it is supposed to be awarded for "EXCEPTION (sic) VIRILITY and EXTRAORDINARY MANLINESS", and its creator says that there is a "lack of real men on Wikipedia" with no indication of what that means in the context of Wikipedia. Is it for bravery and boldness? Those traits transcend gender. Is it for aggression? Sorry, that doesn't deserve a star. Really, it seems distasteful to associate any virtue(s) to one gender over another. I say we pass on this one. – ClockworkSoul 05:06, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Its creator doesn't say that there's a lack of real men on Wikipedia. I said that, and User:DG is the creator. And yes, bravery and boldness is one aspect of manliness, but it's so much more! Picture a muscular, moustachioed, ruggedly bald, powerfully nude man crushing stones with his bare hands! Possibly while smoking a tremendous cigar or wooden pipe. That is what we are going for here. I would not object to having a counterpart barnstar, of course, for pretty, delicate ladies who are very dainty and who the manly men can help protect from vandals and trolls, and on occasion ravish passionately. But first this barnstar should go through a trial stage! -Silence 05:47, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

This is a person thing, but I'm not a huge fan of gender stereotyping, especially when crushing rocks and smoking cigars are really rather pointless as social virtues (and daintiness, for them womenfolk). I know that all promoting this star mean well, but I fear that it's misguided. – ClockworkSoul 05:52, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Oppose. Though the idea sounds good, I foresee a situation in an edit war where members of one group would decorate each other with the star and possibly decry other group's members as unmanly. --Gurubrahma 05:17, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

That's why we only have a manliness star, not an unmanliness star, the same as we have an "awesome newbie" butterfly, but not a "terrible newbie" moth! This reward is purely positive, and would help stimulate manly men to contribute more to Wikipedia and be proud of who they are. Or perhaps the star could be reserved for people who contribute great material to exceptionally manly articles, or help improve articles by making them much more virile, much like we have stars and medals for working on weird topics or foreign-country ones. -Silence 05:47, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Oppose - I agree with ClockworkSoul. Sorry, but The Manstar seems to imply that only men possess courage, audacity, and vandal-hunting abilities, which is far from a realistic statement. This would destroy the sense of impartiality that Wikipedia strives for, where editors should not be categorized and thought of differently based on something as trivial as gender. And a creation of "a counterpart barnstar, of course, for pretty, delicate ladies who are very dainty and who the manly men can help protect from vandals and trolls, and on occasion ravish passionately" would only aggravate the situation. The Working Man's Barnstar already embodies the overall idea of this award, without as much of the gender stereotyping. Sango 123 (talk) 14:47, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
Oppose, at the risk of piling on votes. Oh boy, this barnstar manages to open up gender issues and stereotype people ~~and insult current Wikipedians~~ all in one stroke! I say we pass... --D e ath phoenix 16:24, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Scratch the last comment, since DG didn't actually say that. --D e ath phoenix
Oppose, per the above comments (and my impression that the barnstar was created as a one-off joke). —Lifeisunfair 16:33, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
- Yes, it seems a bit "jokey". It reminds me, in fact, of the proposal for The Prankstar, if anybody remembers that one. It still gives me the willies just looking at it. – Clockwork Soul 16:43, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
Oppose of course. What we really need is a Menschstar!--Pharos 11:47, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
Next up, I'm going to propose the I-responded-to-a-silly-troll barnstar. All of you will be the inaugural winners. -User:Lommer | ^talk 20:43, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Maintenance and Collaboration Barnstar

I propose a Maintenance and Collaboration Barnstar. It would be given to users who users of the wikipedia community feel have made a significant contribution to the maintenance and collaborations of Wikipedia. Im busy so if anyone wants to make a draft of it they may do so. Tarret 22:27, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

I think "maintenance and collaborations" could be covered by the Barnstar of Diligence or the Working Man's Barnstar, if not the original one. Sango 123 (talk) 01:23, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia Barnstar

I was thinking that there should be a barnstar for edits having to do with Wikipedia pages. The Wikipedia:_________ pages, like this one or Department of Fun or AFD or FAC or any of them. I would put my idea for the picture on it but I'm not good at making them. It would either have a normal barnstar with the backround has the logo or vice versa. If someone could make that for me, it would be good. Give lots of input to this idea. RENTASTRAWBERRY ^{FOR LET?} röck 01:13, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Because Wikipedia-space pages could be considered "community" pages, I think the Barnstar of Diligence could be used for this purpose. --D e ath phoenix 16:17, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I like the "laurelstar" best, tho the Rosettastar is kinda interesting. The idea's an award, & "laurelstar" strikes me as best that way. Trekphiler 23:39, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Burnstar

the Burnstar

This may not be in the spirit of wikipedia - i don't really know because i haven't been here very long - but it would be fun none-the-less (as long as people don't get offended). Basically, this star is a criticism star, given out to somebody with whom you find fault... feel free to expand on it or w/e.

Weenie 12:37, 4 December 2005 (PST)

Yeah, I don't think this barnstar is really appropriate. It would be a troll magnet, among other things --D e ath phoenix 03:05, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

For providing criticism to the concept of a "criticism star" I award Deathphoenix the Burnstar. :)

See how easy that was Weenie to provide a barnstar for criticism? Just wanted to drive home the point that this wont work. No offence meant either of you. Cheers Idleguy 04:40, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Hmm. Not quite what I meant but I realize that (like the other barnstars, too) it would be hard to regulate when and how to use it...

Perhaps it could be used for a different purpose... I just kind of liked the name and image. Maybe it could be a warning to users or something when they don't follow the rules (like if they sabotage pages) or otherwise offend users

---Weenie 05:38, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

The concept of barnstar is used to celebrate good work. Burnstar doesn't fit in and sounds like a poor joke on barnstar. If your really like the name and the image, you shd probly look at some constructive work for which you can award it. --Gurubrahma 05:44, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Burnstar strikes me a bad idea. It's EZ nuf post criticism now, unless we want a Razzie® for really egrigious behavior, which we can just block... Trekphiler 23:34, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

OK, I concede... and I'll delete the thread if I am allowed to. 'Twas worth a shot though.

---Weenie 02:31, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Agreed, this is the most malicious barnestar ever. Having said that, its hilarious that you brought this award up, weenieman. I'm tempted to give you a Humor Barnestar for this. :)

Comics barnstar (result: add to PUA)

It has been suggested at WikiProject Comics that we create a barnstar to reward contributors to comics related articles. I have thus created the above barnstar, utilising the gfdl released Image:Fukidashi.png and a creative commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0 released image johnny by Joseph Li. Hiding talk 22:42, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Strong support. That pic is perfect for the job. Well done :) rst20xx 17:25, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

This might be too specific to include as an official barnstar, but I think this is an excellent award nonetheless. How about making it a personal user award that is listed in the WikiProject Comics page? --D e ath phoenix 19:15, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I have done as you suggested, and also listed it at WP:PUA. Thanks, Hiding talk 20:44, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Categories: Wikipedia talk archives