Talk:Bart Simpson/Archive 1

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[edit] Jo-Jo?

source?

See the alt.tv.simpsons FAQ, which explains that Nancy Cartwright, who (as you know) does Bart's voice-over, gave him the middle name JoJo. — 205.238.129.180 18:58, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Homer didn't know his middle initial J. stood for Jay until one episode, long after Bart was born. Yet presumably the J. in Bartholemew J. Simpson stands for the same as the J. in Homer J. Simpson. Yet how could Homer give his son his middle name if he didn't know it himself (The answer, of course, is that it's just a cartoon!)

- I removed the reference to Jo-Jo being his middle name. It has never been mentioned in any episode, and The Simpsons doesn't exactly have an expanded universe - and if it did, it should be noted somewhere in the article that this is where the name come form. I also removed the redundant "Bart" from Bartholemew J. "Bart" Simpson - the page is after all called Bart Simpson, and throughout the article he is refered to as Bart; no one should be confused. - Matthew238 01:38, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

- - Matt Groening said in "Simpsons Comics Royale" that Nancy Cartwright had a line which went "Or my name isn't Bartholomew J. Simpson!" Groening then went on to ask what the "J" stood for, and she said, Jo-Jo. APclark 19:58, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the name Jo-Jo also appears in something like the "Rainy Day Fun Book" or some other non-canon publication from the early days. I remember seeing it. TheHYPO 05:52, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

- - - Maybe we can have a section dealing with Bart's name; we can add that in if anyone is sure of where it comes from and can provide references. - Matthew238 05:40, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] disinterested teachers?

I'm a little unclear on this one. "Disinterested" actually means impartial (ie: has no special interest, unbiased). In flashback episodes, Bart is shown being discouraged by his kindergarten teacher ("Extra clap in BINGO, not college material"), but I'd hardly refer to this as "disinterested" in the strictest sense of the word. Is the word the writer looking for "uninterested"? --Toquinha 1 July 2005 16:19 (UTC)

[edit] Aye Carumba!

Originally, this is a mexican expression written "¡Ay Caramba!", meaning "oh, god!" or "Wow!" or whatever expression of surprise there is in english (exactly as Bart uses it in the show) and it is pronouncied as written in the article. Still, I wonder if it is alright to leave it or if it should be corrected to its original spanish spelling in the Article.

Three words: Respect other languages...

I doubt the mexican origin, as the word "Caramba" has a very old and common use in Portugal and Spain, and the origin could be a Portuguese/Spanish one. As for the definition you're completly correct. It's a slang word (though not swearing) to express great surprise or astonishment about something, very common in informal spoken Portuguese. Ai or ay is another Portuguese(ai)/Spanish(ay) interjection that normally is used with someone experiencing sudden physical pain (a smack in the head, a bump on something, etc...). It's also very used to start an informal spoken sentence, like the "¡Ay Caramba!".

Correct pronunciation is "ahee".

"Carumba" or the even worst "karumba" are english misspelled adaptations of the word. FYI, traditional alphabeths of the latin languages family, which Portuguese and Spanish belong, *never* had the "K" letter in it, so "karumba" are two mistakes in a single word. --Netshark 09:14, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 11?

Since when is Bart 11? I've never heard any source for this. Source? APclark 18:20, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

In the first paragraph "He is the 11-year-old son" while in the second paragraph "Bart is always described as being 10 years old." This needs to be fixed, but I don't know the answer... -SCEhard T 03:32, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Bart is 10 years old it says so in various simpson shows.

[edit] Circumcised?

"He was also circumcised as shown in the episode where he and Lisa reconcile Krusty to his father."

I don't remember them ever mentioning that in that episode. I know in "Dont fear the roofer", Marge takes Bart to be circumcised (whether it actually occurs are not is never revealed). That either needs to be referenced or edited.

I checked the referenced episode, and no such thing happens. Besides, in the indicated episode, they get detoured and Bart never ends up at the doctor's office - he is shown as up and about when they get home, so it's unlikely he underwent surgery. I've removed the reference. There, that's my strange nitpick for the day. --Trafton 03:29, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes actually he was, though it never shows wether or not he underwent it, he was on a table with his pants off while rabbi was holding the knife, while bart was trying to convince him to reunite with his son, and Rabbi counters his argument and says "besides, this is neither the time nor the place", I'm sure you'll see it if you look at the episode again.

In that episode Bart isn't the one being circumcised. He's merely talking with the rabbi at a bris being performed on an infant. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.215.222.65 (talk) 21:59, August 20, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bart's Ethnic Background

I recently removed a blurb about his ethinticity for various reasons. For one, its never been confirmed what their ethinticity is. Although its most likely Angelo-Saxon, as Simpson is a name of Scottish background, there was an episode where it was shown that the name was won by a gamble by one of Abe's ancestor's. Besides...since the subject of the Simpson ancestry cover's the whole family it should probably be stated in the page for the entire family.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson_family

--Kiyosuki 06:07, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Prank Phone Call List

The prank phone call name list contains names Bart never used on the show. Where do they come from? Could we edit the list so it only has the ones actually used on the show? --WillMak050389 15:43, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Are the others from Simpsons Comics? Digifiend 11:14, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Some are from the video games and the comics, I am not sure of them all myself, that's why I added the references tag to that section, we need an episode cite (or video game or comic) for each one... - Adolphus79 11:51, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

A discussion on the Talk page for mondegreen raises the issue of the prank-call names, and whether there's a term for what he's doing with the names. A mondegreen is a mishearing, usually accidental, that produces a different meaning. What Bart's doing in some (not all) of the calls is almost a reverse mondegreen, where he is creating the mishearing by saying something apparently innocent, but which will take on a double-meaning once it's repeated by his dupe. Anyone know if this phenomenon has its own name? You are welcome to copy any replies to my Talk page, if you wish; I'm "watching" some 200 pages and might not see it here for a while. Lawikitejana 17:26, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bart's South Park appearance

This reference keeps getting taken on and off, on and off. Enough already! I've shortened it considerably to the bare bones facts, as it was a bit wordy. But in the end this is a valid piece of trivia about the character. Anyone who can't see that this character in South Park wasn't a reference to, or maybe even supposed to be Bart himself is delusional.

Please leave it on, the only reason this bit of info keeps getting taken off that I can see is personal bias of some sort. It breaks no wikipedia rule whatsoever and now that I've shortened it to a foot note, it has no business being taken off.--Kiyosuki 00:37, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Eat My Shorts

Since Eat My Shorts is indeed not invented by the Simpsons, but predates the show, I've had to delete it from the neologisms list article. I thought the research of the entry might be of some use though to this article at some point, so here's the content that was there: TheHYPO 05:53, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

An exclamation and catchphrase of Bart that doesn't specifically have literal meaning, though as a joke, it is sometimes interpreted literally by another character. The phrase is basically used as a tell-off, like "screw you", which also ignores the literal meaning of the phrase. It was brought into pop culture mainly by merchandise, as is evidenced by the fact that it only uttered by Bart on the show a handful of times before becoming used mainly as self-parody, and only once in the first season ("Bart the Genius").

In the third season's "Bart the Murderer", "Eat My Shorts" and "Don't Have a Cow" are horses in a race. In the sixth season's Lemon of Troy, Homer and Bart shout it as they flee Shelbyville. Flanders adds in, "yes, eat all of our shirts." By the eighth season it had become a definite in-joke. In "Simpsoncalifragilisticexpiala(Annoyed Grunt)cious", Bart adds it to a song for no particular reason, and in "The Simpsons Spin-Off Showcase", Bart sings it along with "don't have a cow!" as part of his musical introduction in the variety show spin-off. In the ninth season's "Lisa's Sax", flashbacks show Bart's first days of school, and what is implied to be his first rebellious act, saying "eat my shorts!" to principal Skinner.

Other characters occasionally use the line as well. In a halloween episode in which the school staff is eating students, principal Skinner considers that he might start by eating Bart's shorts as Bart has often suggested.

"Eat my Shorts" predates The Simpsons; DJ Rick Dees had a 1984 song with the same title. ("Eat my shorts; choke on poly-cotton. Eat my shorts; everything we had was rotten. So long, baby, I'll see you in court...eat my shorts.") The phrase was also famously used by Judd Nelson's character in the 1985 film The Breakfast Club.

I've removed the following from the article:

Bart is also the creator of some famous catch phrases, such as "Don't have a cow" and "Eat my shorts."

and:

Bart's trademark "Eat My Shorts" catchphrase may be a reference to the film "The Breakfast Club," as John Bender tells Mr. Vernon to do the same. (Actually based on a Nancy Cartwright experience in school)

I think Groening stated somewhere that he took it from the breakfast club, but I'm not sure. In any case, this should written clearly and properly referenced before it goes back into the article.risk 02:56, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Christianity to Catholicism

"However, in recent episodes, he started to become much more religious, seeming to change faiths on a by-episode basis, from Christianity to Catholicism, to a very brief stint in interest in Judaism."

First, how do you convert from Christianity to Catholicism? Second, we need episode references for these statements. The whole surrounding paragraph about religion should be reworked. See also Talk:The Simpsons#Bart Simpson the Religious Fundamentalist. --Liberlogos 01:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I've changed the inaccurate "From Christianity to Catholicism" to "from various Protestant faiths to Catholicism" because Catholicism _is_ a Christian faith. In fact, it is one of the earliest- if not the earliest Christian sect, given that St. Peter was the first pope.Enki Nabu 04:33, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Presumably the earliest Christian sect was whatever-Jesus-and-his-homies practiced, which most definitely bears no resemblance to any modern religion that has a name least of all Catholicism. Catholics consider Peter the first pope, but he was undeniably Jewish. In America at least, -many- people who consider themselves 'christian' say so in deliberate opposition to catholicism. It's kind of like the China vs Taiwan thing.

I'm in the deep south, (lots of protestant faiths) and if you ask around catholisism is generally considered a christian faith in the fact that it beilieves jesus christ was the son of god and that he rose after death. Therefore cathlic=christian, christian=cathlic. === Fictional Catholics category ===

I'm removing the Category:Fictional Catholics because I believe as a one-episode situation it doesn't really count for this purpose. In the 19-year history of the series, Bart is pretty consistently a member of a Protestant church. If Bart has quietly retained his Catholism without my noticing, it would be helpful (for me at least) to explain here before restoring Fiction Catholics category. — edgarde 13:17, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

A discussion whether Catholicism is Christian is the most ridiculous discussion ever. The Catholic Church predates the Protestant Church and its variations by 1400 years and the Protestant Church of course has its very origins inside the catholic church. What do people in America learn about their very own religion? And before you bring anti-Catholic remarks about me: I am a protestant. --217.162.94.103 00:29, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I've re-removed the Fictional Catholics tag. Since most situations on the show (with some exceptions) revert back to normal by the next episode, I don't think we can put Bart or Homer in this category. --Wgbc2032 23:59, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV?

I think this statement is biased "In short, Bart is a selfish, heart-breaking (Bart the Lover), bullying (he has bullied Lisa numerous times), evil boy."

[edit] Fictional Anarchist?

What is the source that verifies that he should be placed in the Category:Fictional anarchists? Thanks, -Cacuija (my talk) 05:33, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

If there is no source that verifies this, i will be removing it from that category in a week or so. thanks, --Cacuija (my talk) 01:59, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

The article has been removed from Simpson, Bart due to lack of sources. --Cacuija (my talk) 16:03, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] katakana?

what's with the japanese? why translating bart's name to japanese? it's not an anime.

[edit] Gay episode

Which episode is where Homer thinks Bart is gay? -71.224.24.99 19:14, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Homer's Phobia Walters1 23:13, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] getting Good Article status

Over at the Simpsons WikiProject, this article is most likely next on the Featured Article drive. If you have suggestions or would like to help, those would be good places to start. Natalie 20:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I did some wide clearing of sections. But left some. I didn't touch any of the articles content. Age should be merged into Biography, Bartman should be merged into Personality. I don't know if the future deserves any mention, thoughts? This article is pretty rough and it needs some sources. The Biography needs to be cleaned up a LOT. Basically just a wide overview with few episodes specifics (like Homer), and Personality, influences and origins all need clean up. -- Scorpion 20:51, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

You just did exactly what I was going to do! I hit edit, and suddenly character origins was the first section. I agree we should model this after Homer, which means taking out all the future, all the episode-specific information, unless it provides a major change or explanation, and possible just get rid of Bartman. It seems to be a gag that they used occasionally at one point, but have drifted away from (I can't think of any mentions past season 5).

I agree with getting rid of bartman, but it should be mentioned in the personality section, I didn't delete it because this way, people have somethinbg to work off of. -- Scorpion 20:56, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Good call. Every section of this is a serious mess, not just biography. I may be able to work on it much later tonight, but by then you may have made all the changes I would have. I'll see what sources I can find on SNPP, at least. Natalie 21:01, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Another note, the appearances in other shows section should go too, but I left because some points (especially the South Park one) could be integrated into the influences section. I've been looking through some FA movie articles, and none of them have appearances sections. -- Scorpion 21:03, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Appearances on other shows are sort of a toss-up for me. Maybe we could mention it (one sentence) in the "impact on pop culture" section. I think we should get rid of the Bart-centric episodes list (if you haven't already), since that's half the damn episodes of the show. Natalie 00:20, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I have completely removed the biography info - since Bart is a child, there isn't much of a biography for him that happens before the run of the show (i.e. birth to age 9). I also trimmed repetetive info from the personality section. Someone else will have to do the rewrite - writing about fiction is not one of my strengths. Natalie 00:55, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] physical characteristics

I have removed this section again. Most of this is trivial information that will not help the article get to GA. Natalie 02:22, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

WTH. The Ralph Wiggum article is longer than the Bart Simpson Article! Someone add something please! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.60.240.214 (talk) 11:25, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Or clean up the Ralph Wiggum article which, while nicely-written, includes a lot of original research. Longer isn't necessarily better. / edg ☺ ★ 11:37, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia section

Do we really need this? Any trivia that is present through multiple episodes can be worked into the main article, and anything else (information that only shows up in one episode) is getting a little more detailed than is probably appropriate to this artcile. Natalie 13:33, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My Response

I disagree and have readded the section. If you look at the pages of the Simpsons characters, there are many with 'Trivia' or 'Miscellaneous' sections. Among the five Simpsons who live at Evergreen Terrace, both Marge and Lisa have "interesting facts" sections. More minor characters have sections like this, too. Barney, Mr Smithers, Santa's Little Helper, Krusty the Clown, and the one-episode Frank Grimes all have a miscellanea section. Surely if Trivia sections stand for these characters, Bart, who is one of the show's two main character deserves a section like this, too. It's only fair to apply the same standard to each character. (And this says nothing of the Trivia sections for all kinds of famous people - from Jefferson Davis to Ulysses S. Grant.) takethemud 16:18, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I also disagree that it would be too detailed. Looking at the Mr. Burns article will reveal that there is a laundry list of things he has said that evidences his mental disconnect from the present day and a list of things pertaining to his ill-health & old age. If this list stands up and is not removed as being "too detailed", surely a list of miscellaneous facts about Bart will not become too detailed for Wikipedia. takethemud 16:18, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I also disagree that these facts can be worked into the article. Take, for instance, Abe Simpsons' page: There are little factoids that aren't worked in- his appearance in a newspaper, his height. Same for Seymour Skinner- note how his allergy is just plopped into the middle of an article. Sure, some editing would make some of them fit, but there would still be some factoids that would best fit in a 'trivia' or 'miscellanea' section in a bulleted list. By making a section for these things, it gives a place for us to put little facts that are interesting to know but have no place in the other sections of the article. takethemud 16:18, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you should check up the WikiProject Simpsons article improvement drive. Those articles are not good examples because they haven't been cleaned up yet. Homer Simpson would be a better comparison, since it is already a good article. Natalie 16:22, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough. I still think that until this article is cleaned up, a trivia section should still exist. It will give contributors a place to list random facts about Bart, which can later be incorporated into the article more smoothly. And, if there are facts which are worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia but that do not work in the article, a section like this would provide a home for them. takethemud 16:35, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I removed the section, we're trying to clean up the article, and adding sections with unessential information makes no sense. So, he's allergic to Shrimp. We decided not to have a biography, so it can't go there. It doesn't belong in Personality, Origins, or Cultural influence, thus making it un needed. Besides, he's also allergicto butterscotch, imitation butterscotch and halloween make up. And those pages you cited haven't been worked on yet, their trivia sections will be rid of eventually. -- Scorpion 17:31, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps people could propose additions of trivia-type info on the talk page, and then we could incorporate them into the article if they seem significant. It's important to remember, since the Simpsons has been going for 18 seasons so far, that every character (even the minor ones) have a lot of trivia. We shouldn't add info to the article unless it's a regularly occuring situation (like Bart's poor grades) or is a significant explanation of the character (like Bart's ADD diagnosis). Otherwise we are bordering on Simpsons-wiki territory. Natalie 18:57, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

On the subject of missing trivia, I think the whole thing about how... the merchandise always used a blue shirt for some reason, or how Nancy Cartwright wasn't allowed to do the voice in public as it violated trademark or something.

[edit] Bart's Full Name?

What is the name of the episode where Bart's full name is revealed (Bartholomew Jo-Jo Simpson)? I seem to recall Pincipal Skinner discovering his full name in a filing cabinet, while Bart is performing on stage ... or something along along those lines. I always thought that it was the episode where Bart is forced to take up ballet lessons ("Homer vs. Patty & Selma"), but having seen that episode a few times I discovered that the scene I was thinking of was absent. I've seen pretty much every "Simpsons" episode and I still can't figure out where Bart's full name is first mentioned. If anyone knows the episode I am refering to, or can shed some light on the subject I would be very grateful, as it has always bugged me. I also think it would be worth including the origins of Bart's name in the article for further referencing.

It was in "The Bart Book". Cheers to 2007! User:Sp3000 05:36, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Character origins

The link brat links to a disambig page on which none of the entries seems the obviously relevant one. BTW, brat is the word for brother in some Slavic languages e.g. Polish.--Patek 21:00, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bart`s real birthdate

Though the Barts Book says he was born on April the first 1982. In an episode were Homer was asked for Barts birthday he said that he always remembered Barts birthday because he was born the same date as Hitler, and Hitler was born on April 20. Im sure he would have a special way to remember his first born birthday.

Edit by cherries01 : Someone should edit this article, it says bart was born in 1979 but that would be impossible because he was conceived in the episode "I married Marge" which was in 1980. So this is kind of confusing...

[edit] What about Bart's "evil" twin?

Someone should write something about Bart's evil twin either by putting under 'family' or at least including it in the main text.

PS This is the first time Ive done something on Wikipedia even though I use it nearly every day so eff off if I did this wrong! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 59.167.23.38 (talk) 02:09, 4 March 2007 (UTC).

Halloween specials are never canon. If they are, then Maggie speaks like Darth Vader and is an alien's daughter. Gdo01 02:14, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merchandising Hyperbole?

In the second paragraph of the "Cultural Influence" section, I think the end of the last sentence ("however, and even went beyond Garfield merchandise too.") should be erased, clarified, cited, or at least generally syntactically improved. Those words are superfluous and imprecise and do not add anything to the article.

[edit] ADHD

I think someone should remove that stuff about ADHD, the episode was actually more of a satire than anything, it wasn't really "revealing" anything. It sounds like someone wanting to tell thier little theories. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.167.48.62 (talk)

It is not NPOV. I am going to delete it.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REFERENCE TO ADHD AND THE SIMPSON GENE BEING RELAETED! SOMEONE IS JUST GOING ON WITH THEIR OWN LITTLE COMFORT THEORY.

COULD SOMEONE PROVIDE A REFERENCE THAT THE TWO ARE RELATED?

"...even before the revealing of the Simpson gene, as Bart exhibited many of the traits of a child afflicted with ADD. His extreme mental quickness coupled with his inability to be able to keep his attention set on mediocre work at school such as in the episode "Bart Gets an F" are big hints"

This section, at least, violates NPOV, and it will be deleted. The remaining reference to ADHD needs to be debated or it should also be deleted.

Uh, you have to actually explain why something is POV - it isn't good enough to declare it POV and be done with it. Also, please don't shout, and son't forget to sign your posts! Natalie 13:27, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Williams syndrome

OK, I have no idea where you get the idea that bart has williams syndrome, that is completely ridiculous, I am going to remove it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 60.229.233.51 (talk) 02:44, 31 March 2007 (UTC).

Were you trying to communicate a compromise with me through the article?

[edit] Bart inspiration

Regarding the citation needed tag about Groening considering Dennis the Menace too tame, he said it in the DVD commentary for Two Bad Neighbors. It's 5AM where I live, so someone else can figure out how to cite it. TJ Spyke 09:10, 1 April 2007 (UTC)