Talk:Barrel

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Contents 1 dry cask storage 2 Good Article; Please add more info 3 Cask / Keg distinction 4 Over a barrel 5 Guinness 6 Sources and External links 7 Useless calculations 8 Data error 9 "Your turn" etc 10 physical aspects 11 wearing a barrel

[edit] dry cask storage

I removed this, because at best it's a tangent - srm: Nuclear waste is stored in glass lined drums. This system, known as dry cask storage, has proven to be very controversial, but it is seen as the most practical of few available alternatives until a site such as the Yucca Mountain storage facility opens.

[edit] Good Article; Please add more info

It is just the spot market that quotes oil in barrels - all long term contracts are signed in metric tonnes - MT. So the trade is done by weight and not by volume. The specific weight for oils will vary - estimated as 1180 liters of petrol or 1124 liters of crude is considered to be a "Metric Tonne" - MT. 7,421850 converts $/bbl of petrol to $/MT 7,069627 converts $/bbl of crude to $/MT 311,7177 converts $/gln of petrol $/MT 296,9243 converts $/gln of crude $/MT -- if you do not have time to use the specific weight given. KH Flottorp 07:55, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cask / Keg distinction

I don't think this article, and the one on Kegs do enough to clarify the difference between an ale cask, and a keg. Whereas they are physically similar in appearance, they are very different. A keg is usually used to serve pasteurised ale, with the aid of nitrogen to get the beer out of the keg, whereas a cask is held horizontally. A cask contains yeast, and is spiled with a hard spile until it is ready to serve, when a soft spile is used. It probably needs links to Cask ale too.

I'd be more than happy to make these changes. -M0RHI 18:41, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Over a barrel

I would like to hear what other contributors think about the "over a barrel" section.

Which of these is more suitable to the article about barrels, this version:

Being over a barrel is to be in a predicament, or helpless in a situation where others are in control. ("I have no choice in the matter—my creditors have me over a barrel.") The phrase is said to originate from either of two 19th century practices: rolling drowning victims over a barrel to clear their lungs of water, or flogging someone who is bent over a barrel.

or this one:

Being over a barrel is to be in a predicament, or helpless in a situation where others are in control. ("I have no choice in the matter—my creditors have me over a barrel."). The origin of the expression may be that commonly available timber barrel has been used as a cheap and convenient alternative to more elaborate whipping posts and other, often more 'ritual', apparatus for corporal punishment, either in the private sphere (where it may be a pervertible) or for official, possibly public, administration of lashes to the posterior of a bend-over culprit, as the following links show still common practice in the British 1899-1902 Boers-repression (South Africa and prisoner exile on the Bermudas, whipping naked boys as artist-illustrated) and even in 1937 Ohio village marshall strapping juveniles; as lashes above the waist are generally administered to a straight back, then a whipping pole or a bench is preferred.

* compare the barrel pillory or Spanish mantle. Another possible origin is the 19th century practice of rolling drowning victims over a barrel to clear their lungs of water.

However in a nautical context, at least, 'over the barrel' referred to a gun barrel, which was referred to by the common term kissing the gunner's daughter for similar punishment, in the Royal Navy rather frequently applied, for the graver offences with a reduced cat or a birch, to thus bend-over ship boys' (till the 19th century publicly bared) buttocks.

Thanks for your feedback! --Michael Geary 16:38, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

The shorter version. I find it impossible to understand why is is necessary or desirable to have this degree of detail about corporal punishment in an article on an unrelated topic. This is not Wipipedia, where this would be welcome and appropriate. Here, it is ridiculous and makes Wikipedia look obsessed with corporal punishment. 82.45.248.177 17:19, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

The shorter version. All these lengthy and enthusiastic references to flogging and to positioning of victims (especially children) and to naked posteriors are completely off topic and distasteful. It seems to be the same editor who is adding this stuff all over Wikipedia, going to almost any article about anything that could conceivably be used to hit someone with, and then inserting a paragraph about children and bare bottoms. It makes the articles look ridiculous, unprofessional, and sordid. He has been asked again and again to stop, but just keeps reverting, without joining in the discussion. It's a shame, but I suppose the only solution, if he won't communicate with us, is to keep on taking out this stuff as often as he puts it in. AnnH ♫ 17:28, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

The shorter version, per the above. (That's only 2999999997 to go I guess.) On a side note, the next possible step to a solution would be going through all the red tape of filing a Request for comment on this user's conduct. Femto 17:56, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

I am afraid that I think an RFC is long overdue here. It is making an absolute mockery of the encyclopaedia: one user and his private view dominating all others. It should not continue. 82.45.248.177 23:26, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

"over a barrel" ext link now broken —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vernon39 (talk • contribs) 01:12, 21 February 2007 (UTC).

The new "over a barrel" item added on March 18th and referencing J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit doesn't really seem to be pertinent. There's no assertion that the term was derived from the book, and I can't imagine that packaging dwarves into barrels really has anything to do with being "over a barrel." Unless I hear an objection, I'll plan to delete the reference. 209.145.85.66 19:55, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. I've deleted that bit. Matt Deres 12:26, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Guinness

Visited the Guinness brewery in Dublin on 30 Jul 06 and these are the cask sizes in use there until approx 50 years ago:

• Pin 4.25 gallons
• Firkin 8.5 gallons
• Kilderkin 16.75
• Barrel 33
• Butt 107

--Gak 20:29, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sources and External links

Renamed to standard External links. If a link is a vital source please cite it as reference in a separate References section. Femto 11:49, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Useless calculations

I have removed this link to illustration of useless calculations:

• Barrel size calculationsGregorydavid 14:21, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure it's useful for a winemaker but Wikipedia is not a wine making guide.Agne 21:53, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

You made things worse. The article is missing any information about actual dimensions of real barrels. At least that link contained a little info about how to calculate dimernsions. -69.87.199.40 (talk) 00:32, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Data error

"each 42-US-gallon barrel making about 19½ gallons of gasoline.[citation needed][1]" See http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/whats_in_barrel_oil.html. Its 51.4% or 21.5 gallons Don Clark (talk) 20:36, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Your turn" etc

I can find no evidence of any historical basis for this phrase anywhere, other than the punchline to an old joke. I've removed it, and added some other uses (of the term) more pertinent to the roll (haha) of the barrel shape/style in other areas. Not sure if it's worth pointing to the disambig page again here but it's relevant enough, as this page describes the basis for all other uses of the word. --mikaul^talk 13:28, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] physical aspects

We need better information about history and physical aspects of barrels. We need to know actual physical dimensions of typical traditional barrels. We need to know about the guilds and regulations pertaining thereto. We need better illustrations, calling out all the parts, like http://www.ukcraftfairs.com/coopering.asp. We need pictures of all the tools for making barrels... We need to know where in the world real functional traditional wooden barrels are still made, how many are made, and what they are used for. -69.87.199.40 (talk) 00:32, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

While I agree that this article is in desperate need of expansion (I have somewhat of a passion for coopering) I don't believe it warrants skirting the wikipedia guidlines inorder to be acheived. While the information you added was entirely relevant, copy-pasting is not the way to do it on wikipedia. The sources you use are definately reliable, accurate and informative, try to paraphrase what they are saying, instead of copying it verbatim. I'll have a look over the sources myself and see if anything can be made of them - however please feel free to contribute again, but without breaking any copyright. Cheers, ABVS1936 (talk) 10:44, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I understand. It took hours to find and gather that material. I hope someone will be inspired to add the material in a form that sticks. There must be much more, better info somewhere. Maybe EB 1911? This is a very historic subject! There must be archeology info about actual found barrel remains. *** Since the material came from few sources, how about just deleting to whatever level you feel is acceptable quantity of quoting, so at least there is a place-holder for the subject matter, and links to the references for those willing to follow them? -69.87.199.87 (talk) 11:20, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

When it comes to wine barrels, the article Oak (wine) actually has more info on construction and treatment of such barrels than this article does. Tomas e (talk) 12:56, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] wearing a barrel

Weird culture: In the US, images of people wearing barrels have long been used as a symbol of poverty (to cover nakedness?), in both cartoons and movies. Should this be in the article? Which cultures use this symbol, starting when? -69.87.199.40 (talk) 00:32, 6 June 2008 (UTC)