Talk:Baron Arundell of Wardour
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- If the title "Baron Arundell of Wardour" is dormant, there must, by definition, be some individual who claims male-line descent from the 1st Baron, but cannot prove it with sufficient rigor. Who is this person? (I am changing this back to "extinct"; it's a barony by letters patent and cannot become abeyant because it's entailed on heirs-male. I will change it to "dormant" if there is in fact a credible claim of a collateral line.)
- While it's not impossible that the Grafschaft Arundell von Wardour was entailed as you describe, it would be very unusual. The best way to settle the matter would be to obtain the original Latin text of an Imperial patent to a Continental family where we know the title has followed the usual entail (all male-line descendants, and their daughters until marriage) and see if the Latin phraseology is the same. Choess 20:33, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Choess, you can email me and I will send you my proof and correspondence on this issue. There actually is a petition for a credible claim to this title.
- That's certainly interesting. Put your email here or on your user page and I'll drop you a line. Choess 21:27, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Count/Countess is what ALL of the descendants are entitled to and is a higher rank than Baron/Baroness!!! I believe what I posted from the website said that but someone who knows NOTHING kept deleting that!!!
- Actually it needs a royal warrant to enjoy full recognition of foreign titles and these stopped in the early C20 being granted to follow the eldest son to ensure that sundry courtesy titles didn't have a status GB didn't recognise. BTW the text of the HRE title can be found [1] Alci12 11:18, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
- I should note that François Velde has just posted on the subject in alt.talk.royalty again, quoting from Home Office archive 45/13725 :
"Incidentally, I learnt that a limitation to heirs general in an Austrian patent is not to be construed in the English sense. The Austrian government recently had some correspondence with the College of Arms on the subject and have stated that in Austria the expression is construed as referring only to a male heir."
Mr. Velde has put the [document] online; as he is generally regarded as a reliable source in matters of heraldry, I consider this sufficient proof that the Imperial title was granted to male-line descendants (and daughters) only. I will leave this message up for a few days in case someone has an objection to raise, but I will then amend the article to make it clear that the Imperial title went extinct with the Barony. Choess 04:54, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
Last edit with citing self-styled "Imperial college" was funny :-) Yopie 11:37, 5 March 2008 (UTC) Yopie (talk • contribs)
- For third parties - this "college" have address in P.O.Box in Teddington, Middlesex and email at MSN. More about is here http://groups.google.com/group/alt.talk.royalty/browse_thread/thread/96b5214dda7f5ec8/066ce38c77adcc8c?hl=cs&lnk=gst&q=imperial+college# .Yopie 12:19, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
