Talk:Bao Zheng
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I feel that this article should make a clearer distinction between fact and fiction. Historically speaking we do not know if Bao Zheng was friends with the eight prince. The eighth prince in the Justic Bao stories is different from the actual historical eight prince. And Grand Tutor Pang (龐太師) is only a fictional character.
May I ask what sources the writer of this sentence used? [Historical records also show the real Bao did not attain a position in the capital. If he was indeed as just as he is glorified, this could serve to explain why he did not apparently climb very high through the ranks as to obtain a position in the capital.] According to at least two history books on the Song dynasty I have in my shelves there are records that he was quite highly ranked. Even governor of the capital 開封府尹 and six months prior to his death he was promoted to vice military chancellor 樞密副使.
References:
- 兩宋人物， 龔弘， 齊魯書社， 2004
Liang Song Renwu (Dignitaries of the two Song dynasties), Gong Hong, Qilu Publishings, 2004
- 北宋史。 南宋史， 周寶珠， 王曾瑜， 楊倩描， 中華書局， 2003
Northern Song history and Southern Song history, Zhou Baozhu, Wang Cengyu and Yang Qianmiao, Zhonghua Publishings, 2003
why is this article under Bao Qingtian? It should be under Bao Zheng
- I think a harmonious compromise between the legendary and historical figure is possible. As one commentator has noted below, Bao remains an extremely popular "folk hero" among the Chinese people today. And that deserves some recognition because it is part of a long record of reverence and praise. But it is true that after a thousand years, there's very little we can actually confirm. The imperial records contain dates of his appointments / promotions. So, we do know that was governor of the capital. There are also a few surviving petitions to the throne. Unfortunately, that's about all we know. It is certainly possible that he was nowhere as heroic as he has been portrayed over the centuries. But in a situation like this, it is the critics who have the burden the proof. He is, if nothing else, a very significant "cultural artifact" in China. 24.69.170.138 (talk) 04:31, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Rename
It does not appear to me that he was any more known in English as Bao Qingtian than Bao Zheng. Given that this is an encyclopedia that should be historically accurate to the extent possible, I propose that the article be moved to Bao Zheng. --Nlu (talk) 03:18, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree, if this article is supposed to contain the details of the historical Bao, it should be under the heading of his actual name, Bao Qingtian should not be the primary heading. I'm going to rewrite this article, as I have just finished a paper on Bao's muzhi ming and anthology.Aas217 (talk) 04:00, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Popular Culture
Bao Zheng IS a symbol of justice in China, it's in the popular culture (not in American culture, hence there are very sources in English), I don't know how else you can show that. Cecikierk 03:48, 26 March 2008 (UTC)cecikierk
