Talk:Banská Bystrica

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Banská Bystrica article.
Article policies
Good article Banská Bystrica has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
January 18, 2008 Good article nominee Listed
This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:

Regarding the names, here is a liink to a Slovak web reference: http://vkmk.sk.neutrino.vasadomena.sk/storage/PoznajSvojeMestoBB.pdf (Page 2). Also, another question: Does Bystrica refer to one concrete river or just "rapid river" in general? (The name also exists in the Transylvanian town "Beszterce/Bistrita" Árpád 09:15, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Bystrý (bystrij) means quick in Slavic languages. Bystrica or Bystrice [Czech Bystřice] (literally approx. "quick thing (river)" ) is a very frequent toponym in this region and nowadays the word is no longer perceived to imply more than river or creek. Juro 10:45, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] 12/14/07

Perhaps add more famous people from the older periods, perhaps remove the pic from that section and arrange the names in 2-3 columns if the list gets quite long. ♠♠♠ To make it more user-friendly (tourists) always give the Slovak names of all the places, institutions, streets, plus the corresponding full English translations (in whichever order, but try to keep it consistent − what's first and what's in parentheses), i.e., rather than saying "a museum of..." etc. ♠♠♠ I'm not sure about those "palaces" (unless they're called that in Slovak and the text gives a formal translation) − are there any there, where are their pics, aren't they more like mansions or something? Carca220nne (talk) 09:19, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your excellent copyediting! I really enjoy reading your articles and hoped you would help me with this one. I have just changed some of your translations of institutions to their more awkward yet official translations. I will also arrange the famous people in 2 columns as you have suggested. As to mansions, I am not sure if this term is suitable to describe a large multi-storey private house on a medieval square (i.e. adjacent to other similar houses). Should I use the word "townhouse" instead? It is more something like palazzo in Italy. Tankred (talk) 15:03, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Glad if you found any of it useful. ♠♠♠ Indeed, I'd also opt for their own translations (I didn't check except with the SNP Museum, so I left that one as it was; I'd probably clarify the college of nursing in parentheses). ♠♠♠ I'm often at a loss with what to call various non-palatial "palaces," too. A townhouse is too mundane for what you describe and I don't think an undetached structure meets people's usual understanding of a palace. I'd say that a mansion doesn't raise the same expectations as much (and implies something fanciful), nor does the Italian palazzo you suggest, a meaningful option. Except in the original name, I'd use palace for an undetached residence only when it's decidedly "horizontal," say height:width preferably more than 1:5. Carca220nne (talk) 17:35, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Economy

Comparisons with Bratislava make little sense (does the Bratislava entry compare it to Banská Bystrica, why not if it's important or meaningful), or with anything else; if at all, Banská Bystrica needs to be put in its own context = compared with something above/at the top as well as with something below/bottom; but why: each user will need a comparison with something else (Rimini, Rovaniemi...). ♠♠♠ GDP from 2001 seems quite dated (so does real estate); if retained, the reader needs to know whether it's at exchange rate parity or PPP/PPS, and what year euros. I wonder whether newer data may actually exist (see unemployment − you'll edit the refs). ♠♠♠ Hill is not particularly common in names (sounds like a mound − see the pics in Wki), which is OK, but change it everywhere then. ♠♠♠ Keep the leading world producer of copper if there's evidence that it was the single top company, say a leading... otherwise. ♠♠♠ I thought I noticed a typo somewhere (maybe not), an orphaned preposition, or an article, or something, but can't find it now. ♠♠♠ I'd add the Slovak names to the museums, too, that helps tourists find them. Carca220nne (talk) 02:23, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you so much again! I compared Banska Bystrica to Bratislava or the country's average to give numbers some meaning. Otherwise, readers would have little idea if the numbers are low or high. I cannot find any more recent figures for GDP per capita, but I will try to find the operationalization of the cited figure. I will remove the outdated real estate paragraph because it probably is not so important anyway. I will also replace the word hill with the mountain. And I will add the Slovak names wherever they are still missing. Thank you for this comprehensive review. Tankred (talk) 16:16, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
Happy again. ♠♠♠ Bratislava is not a benchmark for anyone expect perhaps for someone in Bratislava (do you live among people for whom it is a point of reference for Slovakia? no one around me for whom it might possibly be and this is English=world-wide Wki). The target audience knows nothing more about Bratislava than about Banská Bystrica. Use the country's average, EU, Central European, world... average for comparisons if you want to compare, or compare it both to Bratislava and to a low-GDP city location in Slovakia (both ends, not just a higher one, are necessary for effective context). Users will always have to do their homework and compare it with what they need to on their own anyways. Agreed: comparisons are good, it's the benchmark here (Bratislava) and its singularity that's awkward − how much would it tell us about the cities if we learned that Zurich's per-capita GDP is X by comparison to Bern's Y, that Denver's GDP is A by comparison to D.C.'s B, not to mention much less known countries. The capital of a country is no singular benchmark for comparisons, it's merely a political center. ♠♠♠ Eurostat should have GDPs for at least 2004, I'd think, but probably not for Banská Bystrica; consider using their Banská Bystrica regional data instead with a brief comment like you did meaningfully with other not-quite-localized or up-to-date data. Carca220nne (talk) 18:22, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
The regional data are biased by extremely poor districts in the south and east. I could not find any recent city-level or district-level data for GDP per capita, but I am not giving up. You are right about Bratislava, I will use the country's average instead. Tankred (talk) 21:01, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

I added the updated November unemployment rate + ref, but also left the original reference to the Stat. Office where it was. I'd delete the new reference to upsvar.sk and retain only the reference to the Statistical Office once the same is available at their site (seems to be having problems at the moment). Carca220nne (talk) 00:08, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pics

On the odd chance, Tankred, consider whether these pics might be of any use as additions or more visual alternatives here or with your Urpín: Banska Bystrica Urpin.jpg‎; Banska Bystrica SNP Square.jpg; Banska Bystrica Benicky House.jpg Carca220nne (talk) 18:13, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! I am going to use them in both articles. Tankred (talk) 23:42, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good article nomination -- on hold

This is a great article and nice job on it so far. But there are some (minor) things that should be adressed before I pass it as a Good article:

  1. References: Some references would be nice here: "The city flourished as a regional mining center." in #History; "one of eight considerably autonomous" in #Government; "More than one fifth of the budget was used for investment." in #Economy
    Done. Tankred (talk) 13:52, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
  2. Prose: Some minor adjustments here and there: add "the" before "City Castle," "Matej Bel University," and "Academy of Arts" perhaps incorporate some of the text in (parenthesis) into sentences (like in "...but new industries developed (timber, paper, textiles)."); in #Places of interest, spell out what "SNP" stands for.. Slovak National Uprising where it is first mentioned. A quick copyedit by a native English editor would help out as well.
    It would introduce non-native errors to use "the" before "City Castle" (obviously a name, not a description - "a/the city castle") and "Matej Bel University": they are names like Buckingham Palace, Urquhart Castle; and like Harvard University (named after John Harvard), Pepperdine University (named after George Pepperdine). "The" is not used before such names of castles and universities. ilmari (talk) 06:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
    Done. SNP spelled out. Parentheses fixed. The article has been copyedited by User:Carca220nne. Tankred (talk) 13:38, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
  3. NPOV: You should remove words like "remarkable" in order to make it compliant with WP:NPOV.
    Done. Tankred (talk) 13:38, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
  4. [Sub]sections: The sections #Climate as well as some in #Culture are too short. Can they be expanded to not be so stubby? If not, then merge them into a larger section. Also, I think that while it is an important topic, #City Castle should better be merged into the #Places of interest section, as it fits into the section better. I think that #Famous people can either be merged into culture, with text and not bullet points, or spinned off into something like List of famous people from Banská Bystrica.
    For Climate, I'll try to look for more. For religion, I don't know what more to add, but I can merge the information from that one to places of interest. For City castle, I don't know why it was a section on its own, so I'll place it under places of interest. And finally for famous people, I think the second option is bit better. MarkBA what's up?/my mess 14:58, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
    Ok, that's good. I started the List of famous people from Banská Bystrica page from material from the article. —dima/talk/ 03:40, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
    I am afraid it is not possible to significantly expand the climate and culture sections because Banska Bystrica is such a small city and it is hard to find good information sources. As the main author, I doubt there is anything really notable that can be added to these sections. But the shortest sub-section of Culture has been merged with a larger section and I have expanded the other problematic sub-section (Folklore). Tankred (talk) 14:01, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
  5. Images: Please fix Image:Zamky.Sk Banska Bystrica.jpg so it can be seen on the image description page that the image is under the "attribution licence" (include translation of the conditions under which it is allowed to be used on the des. page from zamky.sk) Can some images be found to be included in sections like #Economy and #Transport?
    (I'll jump in) I guess you meant to do an edit like this (if you're wondering I'm just not good at those licences). MarkBA what's up?/my mess 14:58, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
    On WikiCommons, they are picky with the image information (author, source), so I gave it a better description page. —dima/talk/ 03:40, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
    Images added to the transport and economy sections as requested. Tankred (talk) 13:38, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Won't hold these against you if not addressed:

  1. Slovak names: I would suggest to remove the Slovak names for each attraction, etc. Better just keep them for neccessary stuff, like primátor for mayor, etc. I too sometimes use them in the articles I write, but let's add too much.
    Keep the Slovak names, they are practical for tourists. ilmari (talk) 06:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
    That isn't much of a reason; remember, this is encyclopedia, not a tourist guide. MarkBA what's up?/my mess 14:09, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
    I support ilmari's opinion here. The Slovak names of the most notable objects add some information value here with little cost. I would rather retain them if there are no strong objections. Tankred (talk) 13:38, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
  1. Wikilinks: I see that Radvaň shows up quite oftain.. can a small stub be written? Also, wikilink European Union, and make burghers link to bourgeoisie.
    Linked European Union, but I'm reluctant to link "burghers". MarkBA what's up?/my mess 14:09, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
    Done. I have linked burghers to Bourgeoisie. Tankred (talk) 13:38, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

So far, this is a great article. I hope that these objections will be addressed so that it can pass to be a Good article. I will also try assisting with work on article. —dima/talk/ 02:15, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

OK, much better now. Thanks for your great work towards improving the article. I will pass it as a GA now. Keep up the good work! —dima/talk/ 22:26, 18 January 2008 (UTC)