Talk:Banned Books Week

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[edit] Adding cleanup tag

This page needs cleanup. The cleanup rules say, "Editors are STRONGLY encouraged to try and perform clean-up themselves before posting articles to this list. Help in cleaning articles on this list is also greatly appreciated." However, it might be less controversial if I do not make the actual changes since some who watch this page may feel I would add POV. So I'll leave it to others to do the bulk of the work.

But look at the page. It clearly needs cleanup.

It needs balance to, but that's another story. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 22:44, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

please feel free to indicate on this page what you think needs clean-up. The page looks fine as far as I am concerned. Jessamyn (talk) 03:09, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, I was hoping to stay out of it. Generally, the page would undergo massive copy editing if it were to be published. The problem has nothing to do with the subject matter, only with the mechanics of writing. Grammar, style, links, accuracy, a whole pile of things I saw wrong with this article.

How about this. I'll go and make some changes. They will be examples of the kinds of problems, and I see one editor already fixed something. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 08:51, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

There, I've made a few changes by way of example. I'll still try to stay out of this.

But the writing is wishy washy too. "So 'Banned Books Week' is a more useful title in their overall aims." What? Overall aims? That was not even discussed. Who is making that decision? It is not a very encyclopedic phrase. I think there is a policy on weasel words.

And a separate section for the names of the sponsors? Wimpy to me.

There are so many other problems. It definitely needs further cleaning up.

Perhaps Strunk and White's Elements of Style and Elements of Grammar are banned books. That might explain why the page looks like a middle school assignment. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 09:05, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Adding NPOV tag

Some recent clean up attempts have been made. Great. More clean up is needed.

But if we can set aside the extremely poor wording of this article for a moment, the article looks like it was written by a member or admirer of the American Library Association. I'm about to list examples. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 23:55, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

1. "Banned Books Week is an awareness campaign, sponsored annually by the American Library Association (ALA)" - I think it is sponsored by a number of organizations, although the ALA is the major on carrying the torch.
2. "Offering Banned Books Week kits, the ALA sells posters, buttons, and bookmarks to celebrate the event." - the ALA's selling things in the second paragraph? Hello?
3. "First Amendment rights are valuable to the ALA, and the organization dedicates itself to promoting intellectual freedom, viewing it as an undeniable right that should be guaranteed to all citizens." Wonderful, even if it is POV. But in the first paragraph of Banned Books Week page?
4. "Challenging and banning books both threaten readers’ abilities to access materials" - this should be on the examples page for same POV, OR (original research), and unverifiability. There is no reference proving people are "threatened."
5. "A book banning occurs when these controversial materials are actually removed from a library or curriculum, thereby restricting access to other readers." Excuse me? The US Supreme Court in Board of Education v. Pico does not support this POV statement. The case appears nowhere on this page yet it is directly relevant.
6. "Robert Doyle, author of “Books Challenged or Banned in 2006-2007,” believes that challenges are just as dangerous as bannings themselves." - Really? WHo cares? The guy actually flat out lies to ensure statewide filtering legislation is defeated in Illinois, and actually coordinates a possibly illegal action to deprive citizens across Illinois of taxpayer services by getting local libraries to restrict or cut off access to the Internet, and yet he is here on the Banned Books Week page so important as to actually be named in the article. POV anyone?
7. "attempts to censor can lead to voluntary restriction of expression by those who seek to avoid controversy" - again, "attempts to censor" is a POV issue that ignores Pico and has little or nothing to do with reality.
8. "However, the best way to ensure access to materials is to report any challenges at the American Library Website at www.ala.org." - This looks like an advertisement for the ALA.
9. The references are all ALA or pro ALA.

Those are just some of the problems with POV, reliability, verifiability, and on and on. I am not saying the ALA is bad for this wiki page being written this way. I am saying this wiki page clearly violates numerous wiki policies, most especially NPOV, and it needs serious reworking to make it even passable. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 00:15, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

LAEC, your personal website linked in your profile (and your username) is specifically anti-ALA. You seem, to me, to have a conflict of interest regarding this article and the issue of whether or not it is neutral. The ALA is a 65,000 member organization. There is no issue with someone who is an ALA member making edits to this page in and of itself, but NPOV is important. That said, editorializing on the talk page is not really the way to move forward with clean up to this page and your remarks about Robert Doyle don't really have a place here. His book is an important book on the subject and your personal opinion of his actions are not relevant to this Wikipedia article. Jessamyn (talk) 19:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Jessamyn. You really have to stop following me around and announcing that everything I say is biased.

Everything I said here is legitimate. Everything. Everything I said here is based on wiki policy. Everything. I even specified "I am not saying the ALA is bad for this wiki page being written this way." For all I know at this time, the ALA and its members have nothing to do with the page. So it really is getting tiresome that you follow me around and make statements based on your own biases against me instead of actually considering what I said. This wiki page stinks as it is. You know it, I know you know it. It's just plain poor writing -- looks like a middle school homework assignment. I am perfectly within my wiki rights to raise the issues the issues I have.

Further, I gave numerous examples, just to avoid the appearance of my being merely nit picky or the like. Certainly the majority of the issues I raised or legitimate and even compelling.

Notice carefully I have not made any edits precisely because of my stance regarding the ALA. I am leaving it to others to make the changes they see fit within the guidance of wiki policy. Yet here you are telling people I'm biased and can't be trusted. Who cares? This is a Talk page. I haven't changed the wiki page significantly.

Thank you for announcing to the world, yet again, that I am "anti-ALA" -- I am not and I am a member of the ALA. I am against the policies of the ALA's Office for Intellectual Freedom and its propaganda efforts. Are you suggesting I'm not allowed to oppose the OIF? Can we finish announcing my bias wherever you follow me and get back to following wikipedia policy and treat each other with the required respect due under wikipedia rules? I think you need to reference this guidance: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_be_a_dick Looking forward to working with you, as soon as you come around and join the wiki community like most everyone else.

Oh, the stuff about Robert Doyle belongs here because he is not a reliable source since he lies to make his points (and I can show it -- it is a matter of public record, not my personal opinion as you claim), and he was mentioned by name in the body of the wiki page as if he were some great source for information on BBW. He is not precisely because of his statements in the public record. Hence my including that as one point in a series. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 23:44, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I am not following you around, please do not say that I am. This page is on my watchlist. I do not want to get involved in another debate about this with you. Jessamyn (talk) 23:54, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I am happy to hear that. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 11:17, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding Cleanup and POV

I'm new to this - contributing to Wikipedia - and will admit to this being my first discussion post. I felt compelled to get involved here because I came to Wikipedia for information on Banned Books Week and, instead, got a treatise on banned/challenged books. I don't believe that the information on this page is appropriate for an entry titled "Banned Books Week" - there's no information about the history of the event, when the event takes place, who the sponors are, etc.

I found the information below at the ALA website (including information on the other sponsors of the event) and believe this would be a more appropriate entry for Banned Book Week. Certainly, one could link to another entry called Banned Books and/or Challenged Books for more information about what those titles mean.

I don't know what the protocol is for making changes to the page itself and certainly wouldn't want to simply dis someones efforts. If the creator of this page would like to use the following, I think (as I said) that it's a better explanation for the event:

"Banned Books Week: Celebrating the Freedom to Read is observed during the last week of September each year. Observed since 1982, the annual event reminds Americans not to take this precious democratic freedom for granted.

Banned Books Week (BBW) celebrates the freedom to choose or the freedom to express one’s opinion even if that opinion might be considered unorthodox or unpopular and stresses the importance of ensuring the availability of those unorthodox or unpopular viewpoints to all who wish to read them. After all, intellectual freedom can exist only where these two essential conditions are met. As the Intellectual Freedom Manual (ALA, 7th edition) states:

“Intellectual freedom can exist only where two essential conditions are met: first, that all individuals have the right to hold any belief on any subject and to convey their ideas in any form they deem appropriate; and second, that society makes an equal commitment to the right of unrestricted access to information and ideas regardless of the communication medium used, the content of the work, and the viewpoints of both the author and receiver of information. Freedom to express oneself through a chosen mode of communication, including the Internet, becomes virtually meaningless if access to that information is not protected. Intellectual freedom implies a circle, and that circle is broken if either freedom of expression or access to ideas is stifled.”

Each year, the American Library Association (ALA) is asked why the week is called “Banned Books Week” instead of “Challenged Books Week,” since the majority of the books featured during the week are not banned, but “merely” challenged. There are two reasons. One, ALA does not “own” the name Banned Books Week, but is just one of several cosponsors of BBW; therefore, ALA cannot change the name without all the cosponsors agreeing to a change. Two, none want to do so, primarily because a challenge is an attempt to ban or restrict materials, based upon the objections of a person or group. A successful challenge would result in materials being banned or restricted.

Although they were the targets of attempted bannings, most of the books featured during BBW were not banned, thanks to the efforts of librarians to maintain them in their collections. (See also Censorship and Challenges and Notable First Amendment Cases.) Imagine how many more books might be challenged—and possibly banned or restricted—if librarians, teachers, and booksellers across the country did not use Banned Books Week each year to teach the importance of our First Amendment rights and the power of literature, and to draw attention to the danger that exists when restraints are imposed on the availability of information in a free society.

To assist in planning the weeklong celebration, each year a BBW kit is developed. This kit includes three posters, 100 bookmarks, a button and a Resource Guide, which contains suggested activities and ideas for a BBW celebration. Moreover, the Resource Guide contains an annotated list of challenged or banned books and is an excellent reference for conducting research on censorship. (Since 2001, the Resource Guide is published every three years. Between new editions, kits include one List of Books Challenged or Banned since the last BBW.)

Often challenges are motivated by a desire to protect children from “inappropriate” sexual content or “offensive” language. Although this is a commendable motivation, Free Access to Libraries for Minors, an interpretation of the Library Bill of Rights (ALA's basic policy concerning access to information) states that, “Librarians and governing bodies should maintain that parents—and only parents—have the right and the responsibility to restrict the access of their children—and only their children—to library resources.” Censorship by librarians of constitutionally protected speech, whether for protection or for any other reason, violates the First Amendment.

As Supreme Court Justice William J. Brennan, Jr., in Texas v. Johnson, said most eloquently:

“If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that the government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable.”

If we are to continue to protect our First Amendment, we would do well to keep in mind these words of Noam Chomsky:

“If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.”

Or these words of "Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas (The One Un-American Act." Nieman Reports, vol. 7, no. 1, Jan. 1953, p. 20):

“Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. It is the one un-American act that could most easily defeat us.”

For more information on Banned Books Week: Celebrating the Freedom to Read, please contact the American Library Association/Office for Intellectual Freedom at 1-800-545-2433, ext. 4220, or bbw@ala.org.

Banned Books Week Sponsors include:

American Booksellers Association American Booksellers Foundation for Free Expression American Library Association American Society of Journalists and Authors Association of American Publishers National Association of College Stores Endorsed by the Center for the Book in the Library of Congress"

Alexinmadison (talk) 15:50, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Well welcome, Alexinmadison. Looks like you have a great future career in Wikipedia. Keep it up. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 20:11, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! That was a very kind thing to say. - Alexinmadison (talk) 21:23, 7 May 2008 (UTC)