Talk:Banksia brownii/Archive

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Jargon

  • Inflorescences are typically terminal on a branch, with other branchlets subtending it
    • Because they are usually subtended by branchlets
  • old withered flower pages.
  • one of the lowest outcrossing rates
Thanks, fixed. Snottygobble 05:49, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Linkfix Dump

See User:Edward Z. Yang/LinkFix dump for context.
================================================================================
LinkFix Dump
Banksia brownii
2006-07-12.23-28-12
================================================================================
20 [[Habitat]] -> DISAMBIG
25 [[Perianth]] -> DISAMBIG
25 [[Infructescence]] -> [[Inflorescence]]
36 [[Endemism]] -> [[Endemic (ecology)]]
36 [[Celcius]] -> [[Celsius]]
# DONE

— Edward Z. Yang(Talk) 03:32, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Edward. Best to leave the link to Perianth I think. I've fixed the others. Snottygobble 03:44, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Actually, Perianth wasn't really a disambiguation article. I have fixed this by removing the disambig flag from Perianth. Snottygobble 03:48, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
nice bot, i'll do the Banksia artcile ones shortly Gnangarra 03:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Good Article nomination has failed

The Good article nomination for Banksia brownii/Archive has failed, for the following reason:

Technical terms need explaining. Midrib, perianth, tepals, pistil, anthesis and fructescence are all words which few outside botany will understand. Worldtraveller 20:48, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
I've always taken the position that a technical term with a linked page does not require an explanation within the linking page. I've actually often removed such definitions. Circeus 21:04, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
thank you for the review, I do disagree with your reasonings GA criteria in part 1 section (d) necessary technical terms or jargon are briefly explained in the article itself, or an active link is provided.. Gnangarra 00:59, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Well now, that's better than a poke in the eye with a burnt stick, isn't it? Thanks Circeus for requesting a review. Snottygobble 05:43, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

This article is in good company: the JS Bach article failed its GA, but heck, it's pretty good. Make a few changes and submit to FAC? Tony 03:18, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm disappointed but I have withdrawn this article from WP:GA/D Gnangarra 12:44, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Never mind, realistically we should be able to get most of the species as good articles as the longer ones are fairly comprehensive. Looking at the criteria its actually almost as strict asa FA but shorter. Cas Liber 20:06, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

More references

I have today obtained three more references:

  • Day, Denise A., Brian G. Collins and Rosemarie G. Rees (1997). "Reproductive biology of the rare and endangered Banksia brownii Baxter ex R. Br. (Proteaceae)". Australian Journal of Ecology 22: 307–315. 
  • Keighery, Greg (1988). "Endangered! Brown's Banksia (Banksia brownii)". Landscope 3 (4): 54. 
  • Cochrane, Anne, Sarah Barrett and Sandra Gilfillan (2005). "The feather-leaved banksia". Landscope 20 (3): 22–28. 

I'm also aware that there is a (very short) article on the species in "Threatened Australian plants: overview and case studies", a number of copies of which are floating around the public library system. I'll get hold of a copy eventually. This would leave only unpublished CALM and DEH reports left to cite, and the only way to get hold of them would be to take a trip into the WA Herbarium library. Probably not going to happen.

Funny how you think an article is complete and then you come across another lode of references.

I'll need time to digest these before working what they have to say into the article, so for now I think we should continue with the GA review. Snottygobble 03:06, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

sounds good, I'll try and get to Alexander library in the next few days they should hold a copy there. Gnangarra 03:31, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
Second floor, Tec shelves, Q 581.68 THR. Copies also at Kelmscott, Whitford, Midland, Morley, Perth, Joondalup, Lesmurdie and Melville. Snottygobble 04:13, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
theres more detailed information here than in the book Threatened Australian Plants, the best way to describe the publication is a collection of wikipedia like pages. Gnangarra 04:55, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

A class

After spending the morning reading the articles on b.brownii in , the banksia atlas, threatened aust. plants, proteaceae of WA, encyclopedia botanica and banksia book (3rd edition) i couldnt find any unaddressed subject matter, if anything this article has more detail than those publications combined, therefore I have upgraded this to A class. Gnangarra 05:22, 19 July 2006 (UTC) I'd agree with thatCas Liber 06:41, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Pictures

Could we have a picture of a leaf or two? That way, the explanation becomes clearer and the jargon will be easier to understand. (ie, if it is a feathery leaf in the picture, I'll be able to work out the 'almost to the midrib' bit without following the link to the stubby stub, which explained)In fact, a nice picture of a small, complete plant with a couple of labels would relieve a lot of the difficulty this article may cause a non-technical reader. Pictures are good :-) Just a thought. Skittle 11:23, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

A very good suggestion..
Cas do you know of anyone with cultivars in the Perth area, whom we(I) could approach to take some photo's, dont leave personal details here email me via the link through my User page with contact details. Gnangarra 11:32, 24 July 2006 (UTC)


Oh, and could we have a mention and explanation of the 'hooked styles' earlier than the taxonomy? I would, but I don't understand what this means. Thanks. Skittle 11:31, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Already is its in the second paragraph in the description section, this does give an explaination. Gnangarra 11:43, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks very much for the quick replies. Sorry if I'm being thick, I think the pictures would help here, but I don't quite understand what a hook-shaped style entails. That was sort of what I meant by an explanation. I didn't see the 'hook-shaped' before, but I still don't quite understand. This probably seems weird to you, since you know exactly what you mean! Thanks. Skittle 11:51, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Actually it doesn't I'm very new to Banksia as well, I kinda got hooked by taking some photographs a couple of months ago and uploading them here Gnangarra 12:33, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Skittle's right — we need more images if we want this to be featured. I just rang Zanthorrhoea Nursery and they don't stock it. One of Cas's webpages indicates that he has a B. brownii in his yard that is alive but hasn't flowered. I've asked him if he can provide a closeup of the leaves. If he can't help us, I'll email Kevin Collins and/or Alex George and beg him/them to release one or more photos under the GFDL. If that doesn't work, I'll beg, borrow or steal a digital camera, take it to the Western Australian Herbarium and photograph their dried specimen. If that doesn't yield a reasonable outcome, the only remaining options are

  • Drive 350km to the Stirling Range, find a plant, photograph it, hope we haven't broken various conservation laws in doing so;
  • Drive 350km to Mount Barker, buy a plant from Kevin Collins' Banksia Farm, take it home, plant it in the garden, photograph it.

neither of which I'm obsessive enough to undertake at the moment. Snottygobble 03:17, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

    • I was in Williams the other day (half way there) I should have kept going, Drew if you need a camera/photographer just ask. Gnangarra 04:08, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
      • Cas says he'll upload some photos tonight. Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. If the problem arises again (e.g. with another species) perhaps we could arrange to meet at the Herbarium and shoot some specimens together. Snottygobble 04:17, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
        • No worries, just holler Gnangarra 04:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
          • I should have some Mt Barker nursery pics by Saturday courtesy of my Dad who's going to make a visit tomorrow, seeing he's in the neighbourhood. -- I@n 13:25, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
            • That would be wonderful, thank him from us all at the WP Banksia Gnangarra 13:40, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Update: It's closed today and there's no-one there to guide him around, although he's got access. He can't find the plant in question - is Dryandra brownii a different beast? He's there now, so needs instructions in next 20mins. -- I@n 05:40, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Seems to be totally different, Dryandra is another genus of Proteaceae.--Peta 06:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
      • Thanks Peta. Too late now, he's had to go in any case. The chap that runs it is apparently on holidays. Bummer. -- I@n 06:10, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
        • Oh well, never mind. The effort was much appreciated. Give your Dad a barnstar for us. Snottygobble 11:47, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

To do revived

To-do list for Banksia brownii/Archive: edit · history · watch · refresh

Here are some tasks you can do:

    I updated the distribution map shows 2 distinct population groups and gap from the coast, you may need to refresh your cashe "crtl F5" in IE or "crtl shift r" in mozilla, Gnangarra 12:30, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

    Hopetoun population - questions

    • How large is the population,
    • Is it threatened by dieback
    • Soil conditions, from memory the soil near hopetoun is similar to albany so I have assumed this in the ditribution section.
    I sent an email to the Herbarium on Friday requesting answers to these and other questions, but have not received an answer. Rather than making assumption/inferences I think we need to state what we know about the main population clusters, based on our references, then separately mention the new collection. This would prevent readers from assuming that everything we say applies to the Hopetoun collection too. Rewritten. Snottygobble 01:37, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

    Leaf variation image

    Leaf variation, shrubby on left, tree on right
    Leaf variation, shrubby on left, tree on right
    Rotated version
    Rotated version

    OK folks, can't see where this should go so have a play: Cas Liber 20:42, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

    Sweet! Snottygobble 23:52, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
    great, I have added to the article Gnangarra 00:03, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
    Oops, I just added it too. Backing up.... Snottygobble 00:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
    I had rotated the image so that it would make a smaller thumb (see below), so that it would fit in the description section. The image is more appropriate as an illustration of the description section, but the bigger image looks more impressive. Thoughts? Snottygobble 00:12, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
    detail on the large version adds value to the article the rotated version takes the reader from the page to view detail, as saw with GA they tend be reluctant to do that. Gnangarra 00:49, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
    You're right. But I really want this image where it is relevant to the text. I've killed the infrageneric classification box and put that information in the text, so that the leaves image can go in the taxonomy section, where it is relevant to discussion of the two forms. Also it can now be seen from the description section, per Skittle. Is this okay? Snottygobble 01:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
    OK then, looks good. I defy anyone to fond a more inclusive text on this plant anywhere. The only problem I can see will be the inevitable dicussion on technical terms. What say we nominate it? Cas Liber 04:03, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
    I agree. With this last image we have done everything humanly possible except look at the unpublished reports in the Herbarium library. I also think it's time to nominate. What do you think, Gnangarra? Snottygobble 04:07, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

    FA nomination

    Its done I have nominated this article for FA Gnangarra 07:36, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

    possible new lead

    I've been working on the lead, what do you think about this:

    Banksia brownii, commonly known as Feather-leaved Banksia or Brown's Banksia, is a species of shrub in the plant genus Banksia. An attractive bush with fine feathery leaves and large red-brown flower spikes,, it is highly valued by Australia's horticultural and cut flower industries. It occurs naturally only in three population clusters in the southwest of Western Australia. It is rare and endangered in its natural habitat, with all known populations currently threatened by Phytophthora cinnamomi dieback, a disease to which the species is highly susceptible.

    Speciemens were first collected in 1829 and the plant was formally classified in 1830, there were two more changes to it taxonomy classification before its current classification. B. brownii is highly valued by Australia's horticultural and cut flower industries with seed, plants and grafted varieties available in Australian nurseries.

    the piece striked thru has been moved into the second para. Gnangarra 00:22, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

    I'm working on this too. Can you give me a little while to respond? Snottygobble 00:30, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
    How about this? Snottygobble 01:24, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

    Banksia brownii, commonly known as Feather-leaved Banksia or Brown's Banksia, is a species of shrub in the plant genus Banksia. An attractive plant with fine feathery leaves and large red-brown flower spikes, it usually grows as an upright bush around two metres (7 ft) high, but can also occur as a small tree or a low spreading shrub. First collected in 1829 and published the following year, it is placed in Banksia section Oncostylis, series Spicigerae. There are two genetically distinct forms.

    B. brownii occurs naturally only in three population clusters in the southwest of Western Australia, mostly between Albany and the Stirling Range. In the Stirling Range it occurs among heath on rocky mountain slopes; further south it occurs among Jarrah woodland in shallow nutrient-poor sand. It is rare and endangered in its natural habitat, with all known populations currently threatened by Phytophthora cinnamomi dieback, a disease to which the species is highly susceptible. Other threats include loss of habitat, commercial exploitation and changes to the fire regime.

    Highly valued by Australia's horticultural and cut flower industries, B. brownii is widely cultivated in areas not exposed to dieback. It prefers a sheltered position in soil with good drainage, and must be provided with some moisture over summer.

    Hopetoun collection

    I received a response to my questions about the Hopetoun collection from Karina Knight at the Western Australian Herbarium. She has advised that

    1. The Hopetoun collection is a carpological specimen i.e. it is merely a fruit or nut
    2. They have not been able to locate the specimen in their collection to verify its identification as B. brownii
    3. She has removed the geocodes from the record, so it will stop showing up on the map next time the map is refreshed.
    4. Unless/until she finds the specimen and verifies the identity, we should assume that B. brownii does not occur on the Esperance Plains.

    I will update the article. Gnangarra, can you update (or rather downdate) your map?I have reverted to a previous version of the map.

    Snottygobble 12:33, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

    As promised, the rogue dot has now been removed.[1] Snottygobble 05:24, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
    Good to see, :) Gnangarra 05:30, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

    FA

    This article is now a Featured article. Thanks and congratulations to all who contributed. I have today submitted it to Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests. Snottygobble 12:12, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

    Cool! (just got back from 3 days in Brisbane..). Doesn't it get a little star or something?Cas Liber 12:53, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

    Good point. Done. Snottygobble 23:39, 20 August 2006 (UTC)