Talk:Baltimorese

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[edit] Who speaks it?

It's probably worth noting that Bawlmerese is a dialect spoken almost exclusively by white people. Not sure where exactly in the article this should go. --Jfruh 02:48, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, that rather changes the meaning given that Baltimore has an African-American majority population. Yeltensic42.618 03:29, 31 December 2005 (UTC)


Hardly changes a thing. Baltimore is majority African-American, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a native Baltimore dialect. Agree it's spoken by white people mostly, and this fact has been added. —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])


I've lived in Maryland for 20 years, and now go to UMBC in Catonsville. I've never heard more than 3 or 4 people speak this way...? --A student—Preceding unsigned comment added by an unspecified IP address (talk)

I guess you don't venture into the city, beside the Inner Harbor, or the clubs in Fells Point/Canton/Federal Hill that often, or have never talked to a longtime resident or someone who grew up in the city, espicially on the east side in Fells Point or Canton or Butchers Hill or Highlandtown. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 05:47, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
True, I've been almost every place in Baltimore there is to go, and I have heard some very deep Bawlmerese 16:30, 8 October 2006 (UTC) (Asinine HTML signature removed-- inappropriate)

[edit]  ??

cole race beef samwish - cold roast beef sandwich

is this for real?—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

80.229.242.179 23:43, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Even been to Baltimore? Not the tourist areas or suburbs?unsigned
now, i have heard about half of these words spoken like this as far out from Baltimore as bel air but i really do belive that about the other half of these are made up and/or borrowed from stereotypical Chicago-ian (is that a word? i really don't know) speech, and this cole race beef samwish thing is almost surely one of the made up ones -the me

The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fitser talk:Fitser|talk]]

While admittedly not as common as some of the others, like the "Downy Ocean" and "Droodle Pork", I have heard this one on occasion. I don't know if it's common enough to be included on the list, but it does occur sometimes. Mukkakukaku 9:35, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
I have added "payment" and Sweitzer cheese as inclusions of Baltimorese. Beeracuda 14:15, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Payment, yes. But the cheese is not really an example that belongs here. You are absolutely right that it is an example of a term I personally have heard many times which could be specific to Baltimore (though I suspect it's common in a lot of places settled by German immigrants), but sorry, it isn't an example of pronunciation or dialect variation, and so doesn't belong here. 69.30.112.12 00:29, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

abouit the Bel air i dont think its that far out, im live in baltimore county and its barly spoken here exept for about 10 15 words(Esskater11 00:13, 12 July 2007 (UTC))

[edit] hairspray (musical) movie - 2007

In the recent film adaption of the Hairspray musical John Travolta plays Divine's old role of Tracy's mother. How's his Baltimore accent? Arthurian Legend 04:29, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Doen'cha knoe, it's herrble, hon! He took a couple of aspects of things he's heard in Dundalk, along with places in Howard, Hartford, and Cecil counties, and came up with something that was grossly un-authentic. To his credit, he tried to do some sort of accent, unlike the rest of the cast who talked like they were from somewhere in the Midwest.Weyandt 19:49, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grr

its called "Balmereese" not "Baltimorese".—Preceding unsigned comment added by an unspecified IP address (talk)

Perhaps you mean to say it's pronounced "Balmereese?"Toddstreat1 23:17, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moved unknown

Moved ungooglable *Brummy Warsher to talk. If notability established, move back. Toddstreat1 23:17, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] =="Common examples, informally described"==

The reasons I keep deleting the section now labeled "Common examples, informally described" are manifold:

  • 1. The section has no references.
  • 2. It's nothing but an unsystematic list of pseudo-phonetic respellings of mostly standard words; this is uninformative because pseudo-phonetic respellings are vague and mean different things to different people.
  • 3. It's POV and unencyclopedic: because it's a list of Baltimore pronunciations of common words, rather than Baltimore-specific words, there are no objective criteria for choosing what words to include or exclude. It's just an indiscriminate list.
  • 4. Even if it were possible to figure out from the respellings what pronunciation is meant to be conveyed, giving a list of Baltimore pronunciations of common words adds no information: the phonetic features of the Baltimore accent should be, and are, described elsewhere in the article.
  • 5. Many of the examples listed don't exhibit features of the Baltimore accent at all, but rather features common to the informal speech of every region of the United States.

Reason turns rancid: This kind of section does not appear on other dialect pages. Other dialect pages contain lists of words that are common in the dialect in question and rare outside it, such as "bubbler" and "frappe" for the Boston accent or "on line" for New York dialect. This is not such a list. AJD 04:41, 27 August 2007 (UTC)


  • Understandable. Upon further review of some of the other American dialect articles, I'm inclined to agree with your standpoint. Perhaps a hefty trimming of the list to reflect those words which used solely by the target group. Being a native to the area, I'll give them all a review, as it was turned into a list more for humour than reference. I'll peruse them at my next convenience. Reason turns rancid 16:53, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Ajd's concerns strike me as overly pedantic. The word list is meant to be illustrative, not scholarly. It serves a useful purpose, and I really believe that most people would be able to do a pretty good job with the pronunciation even if it is "pseudo-phonetic." Consider the tourist who comes to town and asks how to find the Zoo. "Droodle Park," he hears. What on earth could that mean? But Wikipedia has the answer. At least it does now. Purplephlogiston 02:37, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

  • Wikipedia has a policy of using IPA for giving pronunciations. Also, Wikipedia has a citation reference policy for supporting claims. Both would argue in favor of at least severely paring down the section on local words if not eliminating it as Ajd has done. It makes sense that dialect articles all follow the same template.
  • I think it is fair to admit that the policies do have the disadvantage of making it harder for those with no background in dialect study to use Wikipedia in the way Purplephloiston describes. Still the consequences of violating them are even worse, particularly with language. The specific problem is that because everyone uses language, they tend to think they know more about it than they really do. There is a whole subfield of study (Led by Dennis Preston of Michigan State) on popular though often innaccurate beliefs about language that are held by speakers. In a similar way, impressionistic (aka pseudophonetic) spellings tend to be clearer to writers than readers. If someone writes "ay" in an impressionistic spelling, do they mean [eɪ] (as in "say} or [aɪ] as in "buy" . After all, how do you indicate the sound [aɪ] impressionistically? It's not always clear.
  • Contributing on linguistics is not the same as writing up the history of a school, describing a band, or providing information on a style of pottery. It requires a considerable of technical knowledge to do usefully. I'm not claiming that you have to have a doctorate to have something useful to say on the matter of Baltimore dialect, but I do think you have to do your homework; the equivalent of, say, an upper level undergraduate term paper and then be prepared for someone who may have a doctorate to make some corrections. In the end, I'll come down on the side of pedantry over innacuracy and uninformed enthusiasm.mnewmanqc 17:42, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Unless there is some reasonable objection, I'll delete the section in question in a couple of days. mnewmanqc 12:31, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

  • Such a loss. The Gods of scholarship have perhaps been served (though I question it), but the common man is diminished. Surely there could be some uniquely Baltimorese terms worthy of your blessing? Purplephlogiston 19:33, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Those terms are all in a linked webpage. Why not just point people there a bit more explicitly? As for gods, well they are very demanding. Just be glad we don't have to deal with the Aztec Sun God who had an appetite for human hearts. mnewmanqc 00:26, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] accuracy?

In my latest addition I just assumed the correctness of the claims and gave IPA equivalents. However, I'm not thrilled with it because not much here is referenced, but as far as I know there is little out there specifically on Baltimore dialect. What I've read says it's very similar to Phila. However, that is not always reflected in the phonetics section. For example, it says /l/ is dark or vocalized, whereas the Phila /l/ is often vocalized, but when consonantal in onsets position can be quite clear. Also, some of the neutralizations discussed in the monophthongizations seem unlikely to me. They may be right, but I'd like some confirmation. mnewmanqc (talk) 13:59, 19 November 2007 (UTC)