Talk:Ballon d'Or

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Contents 1 "Widely Regarded" 2 2007 Update for Kaka 3 world cup golden ball 4 Club 5 surprise 6 top 3 7 Real Madrid's pseudo-European Players of the Year 8 Rogerio Ceni 9 World Footballer of the year 10 Requested move 10.1 Discussion

[edit] "Widely Regarded"

This article says: "Ballon d'Or is widely regarded as the most prestigious individual award in football." This is untrue!! Here in brasil, FIFA's prize is much more valued than Ballon d'Or. this statement is very subjective, and should be substituted for "as one of the most prestigious", or "the most prestigious in Europe".

189.70.36.195 22:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

• I don't think it is subjective. It doesn't say that it "is" the most prestigious prize, it says that it is "widely regarded" as such. Those are two different things. I understand that FIFA's award can be regarded by some as bigger award since it refers to "world" player of the year, but Ballon d'or also counts all players from around the world since 2007. And also because Ballon d'Or started in 1950s and FIFA WPOTY award started in 1991, so this award is much older. You can also read on this page on goal.com that they say that FIFA's award is arguably a bit less important.[1]

Just because it is not he boldest claim possible ("is" the most prestigious) does not mean it is not subjective. Having read that link, I think its good that you found a source, but ultimately, it is still an arbitrary decision...the writer did not substantiate his point at all. After all, who is "Steve Michaels?" Find an article that addresses the main difference between the awards (Baloon is voted by writers, while FIFA is voted by coaches) and uses THAT as justification for valuing the Baloon d'Or more and I'll defend the claim. Until then, I'm taking it out. Jairuscobb 22:14, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, I just read an article in a Brazillian website that says "A conquista da Bola de Ouro é um bom indício para Kaká na disputa do prêmio de Melhor do Mundo da Fifa. Desde 1991, quando foi criado o troféu concedido pela entidade máxima do futebol, nove vencedores da Bola de Ouro foram eleitos o Melhor do Mundo". In English, it means "The premiation of the Ballon d'Or is a good omen for Kaká in the quest for the prize of FIFA World Player of the Year. Since 1991, when the trophy given by the greatest football entity was created, nine winners of Ballon d'Or were elected Word Players". And that is the Brazillian mentality, Ballon d'or is nothing but a step closer to FIFA's prize.

link: http://esportes.terra.com.br/futebol/europeu2007/interna/0,,OI2118647-EI9974,00.html

189.70.82.150 19:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

• And what about many other countries in the world that think otherwise? [2][3] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.94.114.153 (talk)

Well, I am saying it isn't the most prestigious everywhere, and it isn't. It may be the most prestigious in England or France, but not in all the world, as the article was saying. So, you should change to "the most prestigious in Europe" 189.70.87.115 18:06, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 2007 Update for Kaka

Hi everyone. I just found sources which say that Kaka has won [4] [5], and I started updating the page, which probably wasn't a good idea. In any case, as things stand now, everything regarding Kaka winning has been updated (ie, nation/club medal counts, etc.). So no need to add it all again when the victory becomes official on the 2nd. Sorry about that.

Jairuscobb (talk) 05:07, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I noticed that the information about Kaka has already been taken down once. Please, I know it was a mistake to put it up in the first place, but now that I've already updated everything, please don't take it down, otherwise, the medal counts and what not will probably end up double counted, which we all want to avoid.

Jairuscobb (talk) 02:22, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] world cup golden ball

AIUI, a separate award given to the player of the tournament in World Cup finals is also called the Golden Ball. Possibly some disambiguation and a new page needed?

I made a disambiguation page at Golden Ball, in stead of the redirect page that was there earlier. --Salmon 13:36, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Club

Because the award count from January to December, the club section may have two clubs i think. Matthew_hk tc 06:08, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

• I agree Blogdroed 22:46, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
• I agree. Fabio Cannavaro won the award playing with two clubs and should be recognised in the article as such. Niall123 22:21, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
• I agree. But I think it should be assigned to the club he played in the season before the award (i.e., for Cannavaro, listing only Juventus). --Attilios 23:24, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] surprise

Im surprised that none of the mighty magyars have ever won the european player of the year

[edit] top 3

I made the table which shows top 3 for each year. FIFA WPOTY has one too, so I see no reason why this award, which is more important than FIFA’s, wouldn’t have it. I used information from the RSSSF’s site and compared their information with Wikipedia’s. They listed clubs that a player was a member of only in the second part of the year (which is what officially counts after all), but I also added clubs from the first part of the year. I used information from Wikipedia, so it should be correct. The only mistake that I found on RSSSF site is about Raymond Kopa - they state that he was playing for Stade Reims at the end of 1956, and for Real Madrid at the end of 1959. However, I found on Wikipedia and a few other sites that he moved to Real in the summer of 1956, and returned to Stade Reims in the summer of 1959. So that is the only thing that I corrected in the top 3 table as well as in 2 tables below (‘’medals by club’’ and ‘’medals by league’’). In ‘’medals by players’’, I decided to put only players who won at least 2 medals, because the complete list would be way too long, and unnecessary, since their names can be found above. Someone keeps making changes to ‘’wins by club’’, and putting Barcelona on top, even though Luis Figo and Ronaldo didn’t play there when they won the award. That’s incorrect. RSSSF made all their rankings for clubs and leagues according to what club players played for when they won the award, or finished 2nd/3rd. That club/league is what France Football OFFICIALLY counts, whether someone likes it or not. I kindly ask that user not to make those incorrect changes any more. Thanks. Maja123456 12:03, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Real Madrid's pseudo-European Players of the Year

For lots of these players who Real Madrid are given credit for here, they earned the honour while they were at other clubs. For example Fabio Cannavaro was awarded player of the year after playing a season for Juventus and winning the World Cup with Italy. Why on earth should Madrid get the credit for that? - Soprani 20:00, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Says on his page that Cannavaro started playing for Madrid on July 25th...thats a good chunk of a season before the award is released in December. And if you are arguing that his Madrid results were not the ones which "earned" him the award, I would argue, neither was his time at Juventus or anything besides his World Cup Play (ie. take out his play in Germany, and is he even in the discussion for the award? I hardly follow football, but my guess is no. That's not to say that he didn't play well outside of those seven matches, but I think they disproportionately helped his cause at the Year End Awards, with good reason), but the award doesn't discriminate that way. So what's the problem...? Jairuscobb (talk) 11:55, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh, it turns out you aren't a real person...nevermind all that. Jairuscobb (talk) 11:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rogerio Ceni

São Paulo F.C goalkeeper, Rogerio Ceni been nominated this year for this award and he plays for a South American team. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.152.4.232 (talk) 12:49, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] World Footballer of the year

France Football now includes players from every league. I think that the title of the page should now be changed back to "Ballon d'Or" instead of "European Player of the Year" because it doesn't refer to Europe in any way (nationality or league) any more. Miht09 14:53, 23 October 2007 (UTC)Miht09

I agree. However, I have no idea how to go about it. Do we keep adding to this list with a new title, or does this count as a new award now? Hard to say that Platini and van Basten have won the same award as Kaka... Jairuscobb (talk) 05:22, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, everyone considers it to be the same award. Even if they included a couple of players from leagues outside of Europe, it won't change the fact that players from European leagues remain biggest favourites to win it. This change now is a minor change compared to that of 1995 when they included players from outside of Europe, so that for example South American or African players became eligible, and they have won it many times since then. If France Football didn't say it was a different award in 1995, then there's no reason to consider it a different award now. All winners since 1956 until now, including Kaka, won the same award. You can find it here http://www.francefootball.fr/FF/ballon_or/index_bo.html. IMHO the title should be left like it is (World Footballer of the Year) or maybe even better, "Ballon d'Or" so that it would include both the years when it referred to "Europe" and from now on, years when it refers to all leagues in the world. Miht09 (talk) 16:27, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Wow, it is refreshing to see such logic on wikipedia. You've won me over...do as you wish

Jairuscobb (talk) 11:49, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I think the article should be reverted back to "Ballon d'Or" because then it becomes too associated and confusing with the "FIFA World Player of the Year" award, what do you think?.... Muppeteer —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.211.57.208 (talk) 21:06, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I prefer Ballon d'Or or even Golden Ball to European Footballer of the Year, which this award clearly is not anymore. Nach0king 08:56, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move