Talk:Balisong (knife)

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Two thoughts: One, the article should be renamed to Balisong, as "butterfly knife" also refers to a sword used in Hung Gar (IIRC), which should have its own article. Also, I'm altering the line about Kali, because the balisong is generally not a prominent weapon in the art. --Lazyhound 14:32, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Isn't the Hung Gar weapon called Butterfly sword

--131.207.161.152 07:10, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Non encyclopedic term

The page contain improper term. "Crap" is not considered as proper term. Please correct.

[edit] Dejingoisation

Well, first of all I separated Canada from the US states and made UK being higher as it is culturally, historically, linguistically and alphabetically(mind only the latter :p). So it would be really nice if someone elaborated the Canadian laws... --Turkmenbashy 23:21, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Butterfly knives have been illegal in Britain since the blanket " Offensive weapons act" of 1988, which came into force in 1989. I have altered the reference to the UK law to refelct this. Whereas in the UK it IS legal to own a (for example) Bowie knife in your own home it is NOT legal to possess a Butterfly knife. 21:27, 19 October 2006 (Dangerdave 21:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)) Signed Dangerdave

This is incorrect. This is a misunderstanding of the (fairly complex) laws surroundng offensive weapons.
It is not illegal merely to possess a butterfly knife... possession of any type of knife is not an offense per se; such stringent restrictions are reserved for firearms, explosives (and, I imagine, chemical and nuclear weapons).
The referred-to law makes it an an offence to manufacture, sell, hire, offer for sale or hire, expose or possess for the purpose of sale or hire, lend or give away a butterfly knife (under §141, Criminal Justice Act 1988). It also makes it an offence (under §50(2) or (3) of the Customs and Excise Management Act 1979) to import such a knife. It is not an offence merely to possess such a knife, and it is not explicitly an offence to buy or borrow one (although that might be regarded as incitement to commit an offence of sale or hire).
Carrying a butterfly knife in public probably is an offence under most circumstances (either under §139, Criminal Justice Act 1988 or §1, Prevention of Crime Act 1953). TomH 01:20, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction

There are three points, one after the other, in the introductory section that all relate to when the knife was invented, and they all contradict each other. The problem is that none of them lists any sources, so who knows which one is right (possibly none of them).GBMorris 12:19, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. The first idea cites a book and that is a valid source. The other two ideas are nothing more than rumors or widely held misconceptions.

In the third idea, the fact that American servicemen returning from the Philippines, after WWII, popularized the balisong in the U.S. is true; but that doesn't lend any credence to an idea that it was invented around 1900. Nothing in the article supports invention around 1900 . There is no basis in the article or the cited eskrima article to support the second "idea" either.

All we can document about the origin of the Balisong knife is that (1) someone published a drawing of a balisong knife in France around 1710, and (2) many American servicemen returned to the U.S. from the Philippines with Balisong knives after WWII. From (2) we can make a logical deduction that (3) the knife was widely available in the Philippines sometime before American servicemen arrived in there during WWII. Anything else, unless documented, is speculation and does not belong in an encyclopaedic article. Sam 17:55, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

A few points I'd like to make:

  • I don't think it's a problem that there's a contradiction; the article just lists the possible origins and clearly states that "The history of the butterfly knife is uncertain, though three main ideas persist". We don't know the actual origin, so why not list the current theories?
  • I definately agree that we need citations.
  • Just because there's a drawing in a French book doesn't mean that it couldn't have been independently invented, or copied, in the Philippines in the 1900s.
  • There are a few Philippine references to balisongs (eg here and here).
  • If there is a choice between obviously speculative information and no (or less) information, i'd chose the former. It's not like it's speculation clothed as fact.

--User24 16:00, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


Balisong (butterfly) knives are NOT illegal in Nevada. It is most certainly not a felony to carry one. Reference: Nevada Revised Statutes (2005) NRS 202.350 In fact, you can even apply for a permit to carry switchblades in Nevada.

Where did this erroneous "fact" come from?

Taoshaman


I was going to start a new section addressing this, but it's already here it seems. I was always told the butterfly knife was a French invention, yet had heard it was heavily embraced by Phillipino culture. Not a big step there, France, Spain, Phillipines. Perfect, logical sense. However, we have no references for that. Given the facts we do have however, I am first going to redirect Balisong to butterfly knife, as the English nomenclature isn't only the most predominant usage, but probably more apt (unless we call it whatever it translates to in French); secondly I will ammend the article accordingly to address the fact it's a french invention.

There are many 'references' cited which are just some random dudes websites that say along the lines of "X culture used Y tool in the neolithic timez d00dz." and nothing more. Quite dissapointing. Whilst I'm sure it's trendier to pretend this form of switchblade has some esoteric martial arts root in some exotic asian culture, unfortunately, from all the hard evidence presented it's a Frenchy thing.  :P 211.30.75.123 03:29, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] re: French invention

Saying that the Balisong is a purely French invention given the fact of the existence of the Pied-Du-Roy, the sketch in "Le Perret", and the patent for the Balisong design is not conclusive either. It only supports that the concept of the Balisong has already spread Europe during the 1700s, but does not support evidence about its origins. Also, patent alone is not conclusive of a certain invention's origin - it may be a stolen idea for all we know.

Saying that the knife might have spread in Europe during the 1565-1815 Manila Galleon Trade (which predate the French origin), is plausible (the Philippines was discovered in 1521), but is also inconclusive.

Again we don't have any evidence about the knife's origin. What we do know is that the mass produced butterfly knife we know now came from the Batangas knife, that's why its being called the Balisong.

And please don't redirect this page to "butterfly knife" even though you claim its the predominant term. Knife enthusiasts acknowledge the term Balisong. Its like redirecting Katana to Samurai Sword.

The French didn't have a name for their invention when they invented it (if the French indeed invented the design), and they never mass produced it. Let's stick to Balisong.

This article should present all of the possible theories of the Balisong's origin. The statement of 211.30.75.123, claiming that it was embraced by the Filipino culture is dismissive and false.

--User:Qvenx10:10, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moved back to Balisong (knife)

Two reasons:

  1. The user who moved the article to butterfly knife is a suspected sock puppet, and as such, his/her credibility is in question.
  2. Before an article can be moved in WP, a request must be made, and the decision whether to do so or not depends upon consensus.

-- Kguirnela 02:41, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vente nuebe?

The section about traditional balisong says a common slang term for the knife is "vente nueve" (29), for the "standard 29 inch" balisong size.

Isn't that a mistake for 29 centimetes? A balisong is a pocket knife made to be easily manipulated with one hand... even counting that half of the size is in the handle, 29 centimeters (nearly a foot) still is quite a handful... 29 inches (nearly 2 feet and a half) would be a nice size for a gladius style short sword, or a fair hunting knife... it would never go into a pocket. --Svartalf 19:39, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] re: Vente nuebe?

It is not a slang term. It is true that Balisongs have sizes and the standard size being the "bente nuebe". Yes it has a 6 inch blade and almost a foot including the handle - I should know this because I own five "bente nuebes" in my collection and all of them are Batangas originals. It is not a handful trust me, it can be opened as swiftly as any smaller sized balisongs.

However, I'm quite skeptical as to the size of the bente nuebe being referenced to 29 centimeters. Balisong sizes are tagged according to what they call "pati" - a size reference made by the knife makers in Batangas. The standard sizes are pati "bente nuebe" or 29 (6 inch blade), pati "dose" or 12 (4 inch blade), pati "dies" or 10 (3 inch blade). If you'll measure the whole size of the bente nuebe, its falls short by half a centimeter or more. Just as the pati "dose" is not 12cm, but it is almost 8 inches when opened.

The 29 inch Balisong the article is referring must be the novelty item giant Balisong. It is also being produced here and its almost a foot in size when folded. I must point out that the giant balisong is not outlawed here in the Philippines, and you can buy them in any souvenir shop. I just recently bought my second giant balisong.

--Qvenx 21:08, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Benchmade Prices

I think someone should recheck that data there under the picture in the References section claiming those knives in the picture to be worth between 500-1200, I have seen some of those knives sell for around 200 dollars and they weren't on sale. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.127.14.9 (talk) 19:55, 13 July 2007 (UTC) diff

I agree that the prices listed in that caption were questionable. Besides, without a source, I believe pricing info would be original research. Anyway, I don't feel like the prices really add to the description of the knives in the picture, so I removed the sentence. Jodamn (talk) 01:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the removal of the prices from the caption. However, I think that 71.127.14.9 has confused the current Benchmade line (MSRP around $200) with their Pacific Cutlery predecessors. One can distinguish them by whether the pivot pins are visible and the distance between the last hole and the end of the handle – compare with the labeled photo in the Parts section. The balisongs in the photo appear to be collectible Pacific Cutlery (manufactured in the 1980s) and in good condition. Flatscan (talk) 03:56, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 1st Person?

Gemini created huge excitement and huge interest. Gemini also became a rallying-point for the entire community. The whole community (at the time maybe twenty-five or thirty-people, rallied around Gemini and that created a synergy. That caused the rest of the knife community to take notice of balisongs and our subcommunity.

Needs more POV, perhaps.--124.170.251.170 04:32, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] about nomination of 2 diferent kinds of balisongs

I didn't see a clear definition about the 2 kinds of balisongs. I'm sorry if I didn't pay attention to it but there are 2 kinds of balisongs. The Batanga Knife - The handle of the knife that has the latch is fixed to the part of the knife that cuts (the edge) The Manila Knife - The handle of the knife that has the latch is fixed to the part of the knife that doesn't cut (the back of the edge)

That may be of some interest for it changes the way a person may flip the knife without having himself cut by the blade.


200.144.31.37 (talk) 22:13, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

There is a brief mention of latch position in Balisong (knife)#Parts. Flatscan (talk) 04:49, 25 April 2008 (UTC)