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Contents 1 Comments 1.1 Circassian 1.2 Assessment POV 1.3 Cause of Death 1.4 Haroun Of Baghdad 1.5 Protected 1.6 Circassian origin 1.7 Slavery 1.8 Expanding Baibars Article 1.9 Name 1.10 Better wording

[edit] Comments

[edit] Circassian

Although there are many Circassian Turks in Turkey, Circassian are not Turkish but Turkic. That is why I erased the statement that said "considering Circassians as Turkic is a mistake."

[edit] Assessment POV

The beginning of this section seems to be a wikipedian coming to some random conclusion on how "remarkable" this guy is, and being a "product of his time". He may or may not be, I donno. But I suggest this gets removed, or replaced by a prominent source. The second half seems to have some useful information. Ash Lux 07:58, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cause of Death

Based on the linked sources, Baibars had a very interesting cause of death (incidental ingestion of poison). I would add something about this but I feel a little ill-informed in these areas to make a modification. Can a more knowledgable Wikipedian add a line or two regarding the cause of death? Thanks. :Leeannedy 22:26, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Haroun Of Baghdad

Removed this line Haroun of Baghdad is based on baibar.Haroun of Bagdhdad in Arabian Nights is based on real caliph haroun Rasheed...

See "The Crusades" by Harold Lamb for a different opinion. The description of supposedly eighth century Bagdad in Arabian Nights is obviously thirteenth century or later Cairo.

[edit] Protected

I have protected this because the current edit war is pointless and annoying. Please solve your problems here. Adam Bishop 23:43, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I think a temporary protection for this page was necessary. In fact there are two sources given about the ethnicity of Baibars in the article, namely Britannica and Columbia Encyclopedia references. What they cite about his ethnic origin is that he was Turkic. Everyone can read those references.

Chapultepec 23:57, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't think CoCoWaWa speaks English... Khoikhoi 19:11, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, at least I can say I tried to discuss... Khoikhoi 16:20, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Note: attempts to communicate with said user are responded in this. Khoikhoi 16:23, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Circassian origin

Baibars was a circassian, not kipchak. Although the Bahri sulatnas were mostly kipchaks, the first sultans like Aybak, Qutuz and Baibars himself were circassians. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.65.242.128 (talk) 17:52, 1 January 2007 (UTC).

Have you ever read the references?

--Chapultepec 18:19, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Baibars is considered as one of the greatest circassian in history, in most of the circassian, arabic and many turkish history books he considered as a circassian. Even his look is more circassian than a turkish one (circassian have bright skin and hair while turkish are from mongol origin).

have you ever read descriptions of kipchaks in history? and do mongols have brown skin? wtf? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.149.175.230 (talk) 13:11, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I haven't seen any Turkish books regarding Baibars as a Circassian nor the other the sources.

And authoritative sources like Britannica and Columbia encyclopedia reads that he was Turkic.

As for the Arab sources please read this one:

The Cambridge History of Islam By P. M. ( Peter Malcolm) Holt, Bernard Lewis

--Chapultepec 18:42, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

baybars was a Kıpchak Turk; even his name is poof enough. His name is in old turkish language, not in Circassian. Meaning of his name: bay(bey) means lord or senior, bars(pars) means panther or leopard. I know contemporary Circassians consider him their great national hero icon but this does not make him Circassian. There are many examples like that: Kurds, Arabs and Turks all consider Salahaddin-i Eyyubi was from their nationality; modern english people see Rchard the Lionheart as their national hero but he was french and he couldn't even speak a word of english; etc....Isatay 07:38, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Please remember Baibars was the sultan of Egypt. I do not understand Circassians or others consider him their great national hero.Samsam22 01:28, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

many circassians were mamlukes too, and the true name of beibars is "pei pas" means in circassian language "ambush the enemy" or "wait the enemy" somehting like that, and it is known that there were another beibars, but that is known for sure that he was circassian, so how come that two sultans with the same name come from totally different origins? if beibars is a name of turks then why the other beibars had it?. well this is something we must check, if beibars was a circassian or not, because it is a fact that beibars was kiddnaped from the area of north west caucasus and balck sea, where is circassians homeland is situated, and it is known that area was occupied then by kypchak tribes, so it could be that beibars was circassian who were kiddnaped from that area and is known in these days as a kypchak because of the occupied areas of balck sea and caucasus by the kypchaks, and people belive that he came from kypchaks.Andynapso (talk) 17:21, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Slavery

• I think this slavery box misshaping the page of Baibars. It has no direct connection to Baibars. Please consider that. Thank you.

Samsam22 11:06, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

This template was placed by an editor on August 29, 2007. For me it's a little bit overstated as well, I agree with you. So, for the moment I'm removing the template from the article. Any objections welcome! --Chapultepec 11:54, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Expanding Baibars Article

We should expand article of Baibars. What do you think ? Samsam22 (talk) 17:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Name

• Adam change seems ok , though readers will think that all sultans were named al-Malik since birth . Anyway, I think the most important that we have same name ( spelling )of each sultan on all pages. Thnx Samsam22 (talk) 21:40, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Better wording

Right Chapultepec. I just added it as notice till we expand and fix this article. By the way I started an article about Lajin and corrected his name. When I am ready I will move to Baibars. Samsam22 (talk) 22:34, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

No problem, we have enough time, no need to hurry. Yavash yavash.. =) --Chapultepec (talk) 22:51, 6 February 2008 (UTC)