Talk:Bahram Chobin

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[edit] Sad

It's sad to see such lies written here, about one of the greatest heros in persian history. Chosroe betrayed his country by fleeing to Byzantine and coming back with an Byzantine army, fighting with Persians. Reason why Bahram overthrew chosroe is that, after Bahram defeated the turks, chosroe heard a lie that bahram had kept all the spoils for himself, then sending him a letter saying: you are not a man, you are a woman and should dress like one. Bahram did so to prove for his generals what kind of man chosroe is, and the whole persian army stood beside him to overthrow chosroe. The acts of chosroe is one of the reasons sassanid empire collapsed within, to be defeated by the arabs not long after. In the future this information will be added to the article along with source. --Spahbod 11:26, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Societal Framework

Chosroe, which is certainly not a favored king as far as I am concerned, was the Shahanshah of Iran for better or worse; as a Muslim, I particularly find his declaration in his final days of being "God". (I have to find references to this.) So this should not be read as a defense of Chosroe, as a person or personality.

That said, the general in question mutinied against his sovereign. One only needs to read the (mythical) accounts of Rostam and his dealings with various Kings of Iran to be reminded of the paramount value of fidelity to the Sovereign, as a social-institutional matter, to ancient Iranians. One could easily argue that by his act of hubris, he affected the weakening of the Iranian state, both institutionally and politically, which had to resort to foreign help to aid against its own rebellious general and the army under his command.

Finally, and I know torsh khaahee kard but its OK, the system was already corrupted and to pin the demise of the Sassanian Empire on Chosroe is somewhat disingenuous. There are a few articles on Mani and Mazdak that I need to dig up (google for it) that make a case for a longstanding undercurrent of illegitimacy of the Sassanian dynasty (which was a Theocracy, btw.). Even in Shahnameh, we find direct discussion of these topics: (1) the notion of Sassaan being a shepherd of loyal lineage; (2) the notion of his son being legitimate and divinely appointed as illustrated by the "eagle" of Farr that supposedly followed him and his bride as they escaped her father, and finally (3) the claims made by Bahram Chobin to being of Kiani lineage, and his pretensions to loyalty. (Review Ferdowsee's treatment of Chobin in dealing with the Turk Prince he defeated, for example.) Bahram Chobin's arguments with his sister/wife over these pretensions are a key feature of this story, and well worth reviewing. -- Joubin <g>

[edit] need to discuss his sister and his marriage to her

There is a great deal missing from this page and it can be greatly expanded. Also, I suggest a 3 part structure: I)Intro II) Historical Chobin III) Mythical Chobin (mainly in ref. to Shahnameh.)