Talk:Bahá'u'lláh/Archive Wives

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Hello Navid. I have to disagree with your assertion here. A copy of Baháu'llah's Iranian passport page(s) is on the official Bahái web site (as well as on other web sites). According to his passport, he had requested to visit the Shiite holy sites in then Ottoman Empire (modern day Iraq). So it seems that he had told the authorities that he is going for shiite holy site pilgrimage, and he was taking his wives with him. According to his passport, he took 4 women with him, and 2 sons. Any reasonable person will think that he escaped out of Persia in this way, and he was not asked to leave. His passport clearly indicates that the passport will expire in one year, which was the standard expiration date for passports issues at that time. At this time his half-brother Sobh-i Azal was already the leader of the Babi community in Baghdad, and when Baháu'llah joined him, Sobh-i Azal put him in charge of much of the affairs of the movement. From that point on, Baháu'llah went on to accept Subh-i Azal's leadership of the Babis for almost 10 years without any incidents until he came up with some ideas of his own. It certainly seems that Baháu'llah planned to leave Persia and join the Babi community in Baghdad; and all the melodramatic stuff such as "he was forced to leave Persia with very little food and supplies etc...." is bogus and should be taken out of the article. --Amir 16:23, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Check the BBC article in the references [1], it clearly says exiled. Check the 1988 Encyclopedia Article on the Bahá'i Faith, it says quote "He was released in January 1853 and exiled to Baghad." If you read the rest of this discussion, you will see that Bahá'u'llah was banished from Persia, he was free to go any place outside of Iran, and yes CHOSE Baghdad, but that doesn't been he was not exiled, he had to leave Persia. -- Fadeaway919 18:50, Jan 23, 2005 (UTC)
OK fine, he had to leave Persia. So he took 4 women with him (apparently 2 were his wives, and 2 other -- probably concubines) and went to Baghdad. Later in Baghdad he married his third wife. He had three wives at the same time. This is not only against his own teachings, it is even against Babi teachings. So even as a Babi he was not adhering to the principles. The article says at age 27 he had accepted the Babi principles. What does this tell us about Baháu'llah's personality? It is also a fact that for 10 years after he went to Baghdad the Babi leader was Subh-i Azal and Baháu'llah was playing second fiddle to him. The article says that when he moved to Baghdad, the Babis turned to him for guidance. This is a historical falsification and cannot be supported by any reliable evidence. In fact, the reverse of it can be easily shown by historical evidence. --Amir 05:21, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Regarding the people looking for guidance from Bahá'u'llah (1) From the Encyclopedia Brittanica (1988) "He was released in January 1853 and exiled to Bag had. There Bahá'u'lláh's leadership revived the Bábí community." (2) From the BBC article "On arrival, he met followers of the Bab and his influence grew to the extent that it caused dissension, conflict and jealousy amongst the followers of the Bab." and "In Baghdad, he found the Babi community had become dispirited and divided. It seemed that his brother had not provided effective leadership, so Bahá'u'llah spent the next 7 years teaching the basic teachings of the Bab by both word and example."
Regarding the people that travelled with him to Baghdad were his wives, his sister and his daughter.
Regarding Bahá'u'llah having more than one wife, even though his own teachings say that you can have only one wife. He had married more than one wife (in accordance with the teachings of Islam) long before he received the message of his claimed prophethood in 1853, and long before he accepted the Bab's message. Furthermore he wrote the law of marriage in his time in Akka in the 1873, again long after he had more than one wife (again in accordance with the teachings of Islam, which he followed during his youth and young adulthood). -- Fadeaway919 05:52, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)
He married his third wife in Baghdad. For quite some time he had three wives at the same time. He even made multiple children with these wives. Can we be honest here for a second? There is no graceful way to excuse his three wives at the same time. The best thing to do is to just accept the facts as facts. He had three wives at the same time, and he married his third wife in Baghdad. He had married the first two while still living in Iran. So even as a Babi, he was breaking the principles of Babism. Anyway, can you please include in the article that he had three wives at the same time? --Amir 06:12, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
And did not Moses commit murder, one of the 10 commandments. The laws of one dispensation always take time to be completely applied. Even now, not all of the Bahá'i laws revealed in the Kitab-i-Aqdas are applied to Bahá'is as explained by Abdu'l-Bahá and continued by the Universal House of Justice. Abdu'l-Bahá explains that some of the laws are for future times when the world is not the same. I'll add the personal life of Bahá'u'llah in the article. -- Fadeaway919 06:24, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)
Just another note to prove that the laws of the Arabic Bayan were not applied right away was that Mirza Yahya (Subh-i-Azal), the sucessor of the Bab, also took a second wife after the Bab died. -- Fadeaway919 06:36, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)
Yes, in Babism you can have two wives. As you very well know, this is also the case with Baháu'llah's own writing, which was later "explained" by Abdul-Bahá that when Baháu'llah said you can have two wives, it really mean only one !!  :-) --- so yes, Subh-i Azal took a second wife, but according to Babism he was not doing anything wrong. In both the Bayan and the Aqdas it is CLEARLY indicated that up to two wives is allowed. --Amir 06:56, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
When and WHY did this discussion became about the wives of Bahá'u'llah?? and whats the point anyway? - --Cyprus2k1 14:36, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)
It's true that there is no point, I would have this discussion with Amir1 offline, but he has not set up his e-mail address in Wikipedia. I would like to correct some misconceptions about Mirza Yahya's wives though, and I'll do it in the talk page of Mirza Yahya. Fadeaway919 17:17, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)
This article is about Baháu'llah. The fact that he had three wives at the same time is very relevant and quite important. Why do you express a surprise? This information is going into the article, just as soon as I find a bit of time. --Amir 20:22, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

wives times three

I've been looking into Babism and limits to the amount of wives you can have. Anyone got anything off wikipedia about it being reduced to two by the Bab? I know this isn't about Babism but the wives of Bahá'u'llah is in this article so makes it relevant. -- Tomhab 00:38, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I know the Bab did this, but I don't know where. Looking on Jonah Winter's site seems impossible unless you already know where to find something. Someone with Ocean ought to be able to find it. -- PaulHammond 03:35, Jan 31, 2005 (UTC)
I've just completed a reasonably thorough search through an up-to-date Ocean and found nothing on the matter (on either the authoritive or other Bahá'i books). I will continue looking, but if someone could find a reference that would be very handy. -- Tomhab 16:48, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I've seen it somewhere. I'll try to find it again. -- Jeff3000 17:06, Feb 1, 2005 (UTC)
Just found this Miller boook. Do a search for "two wives" and it has a short passage on it. I'm still looking for something authoritive as the Miller book isn't known for lending much respect to the Bahá'is. Is this the one you read Jeff? -- Tomhab 21:30, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Wasn't that reference. I did some quick searching, and I can't find it. Once I do I'll post it here. -- Jeff3000 23:41, Feb 1, 2005 (UTC)