Talk:Badge of shame

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Good article Badge of shame was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
An entry from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on November 10, 2007.

[edit] Third paragraph

The third paragraph is confusing. It makes it sound as if the Nazi's invented the Star of David as a symbol of Judaism, in the same way the pink triangle became a symbol of homosexuality. Wasn't it used a a symbol on gravestones prior to the Holocaust? Wouldn't it have been a logical symbol for the flag of Israel regardless? -- Kendrick7talk 22:24, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

The Nazi's tried to make the Star of David into a badge of shame, but ultimately failed. I didn't think this was controversial, but will try to cite the ref. Dhaluza 22:41, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
That's not the confusing part. It's like if I said "the word cat takes on an opposite meaning when not referring to Jazz musicians (i.e. cool cats), and instead refers to a four legged mammal." The use of the Star of David on gravestones and the flag of Israel has nothing to do with an intervening use of the yellow star as a badge of shame. You're putting the cart before the horse. -- Kendrick7talk 22:52, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
OK, I've looked at your sources more closely. I'll concede the yellow badge was used on head stones, but you've misread the source about the Israeli flag and are making a connection to the yellow badge that isn't there. -- Kendrick7talk 22:59, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
I still think you are taking the reference out of context. The Nazi's tried to make the Star of David into a badge of shame, and the Israelis later used it as a symbol of pride, not unlike the pink triangle. There is no reference to gravestones for the Star--the triangles were used on a group memorial. Dhaluza 12:31, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
You own original source made clear advocates of Zionism were using the Star of David as a symbol in the 1890s. You were only telling half the story. -- Kendrick7talk 16:40, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA nomination

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
    good number of refs from good sources but check ref conventions WP:REF/ES
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
    This is the main reason I'm failing this article with no hold. Apart from a couple of paragraphs, it only concentrates on the wars. I'm sure if you look deeper much could be found about uses in history, off the top of my head I can think of the pirate brand 'P'. Also consider other cultures apart from Europe - the bit about Bangkok is on the right track. Finally, what about badges of shame today? You mention ones which are no longer of shame but what about ones which still are?
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:
    Any questions Nengscoz416 (talk) 04:06, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
  • I was able to expand the history, and broaden the scope somewhat, but I was not able to find any RS for "the pirate brand 'P'" outside of the Pirates of the Caribbean movie context. Also no luck finding any more non-European or current usage examples (other than one minor tidbit). I can only take the content where the sources lead to, not where we may wish they would lead. Also, I don't understand the comment on reference conventions, since I am using the {{cite}} templates. Dhaluza (talk) 05:26, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Still no RS for the "pirate brand" in reality, but I did find enough material on human branding to tie it to the Mark of Shame, and therefore introduce the fictional "pirate brand" used in the movie. I did find a few discussion boards that were generally skeptical of existence of the "pirate brand" outside the fictional storyline. Dhaluza (talk) 03:20, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm very impressed, I never expected you to be able to add so much information in such a short space of time. A definate pass.