Talk:Bad Axe Massacre

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A fact from Bad Axe Massacre appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 28 October 2007.

[edit] Misleading

This article is misleading and needs a lot more information to be complete. The casualty estimates for the Indian side are very conservative based on what I found. This was more a massacre than it was a battle. I have found a few sources which might help out here.([1], [2]) There it at least needs to be mentioned of how the battle played out, it wasn't just warriors that were killed. It would seem that the previous Indian Creek massacre may have been used for justification. ([3]). IvoShandor 07:34, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

No responses, I am assuming there will be no protests if this article is moved to Bad Axe massacre. If the events at Spafford Farm and Buffalo Grove are massacres so is this "battle" at the Bad Axe River. IvoShandor 08:22, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

2nd - as it now reads, the "battle" can't be called anything but a massacre. Of course if the facts cited are wrong... but I'd trust the text more than the Title.

Also it might be reasonable to put a geographic reference in here, e.g. latitude and longitude so that a map can be found easily. From Bad Axe River I finally found

• Satellite image from Google Maps Lat. and Long. should be in here somewhere.

Can't find Helena, Wisconsin anywhere. Maybe the reference to "present day Helena" is a bit out-dated. Smallbones 21:28, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps, just remove the present day? IvoShandor 21:32, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Seems it still exists, see: [4]

IvoShandor 21:35, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

OK - it's the one in Iowa County, Wisconsin. But existence is relative (at least in this case). It's right across the river from Spring Green, Wisconsin. The much larger Spring Green has a pop of 1,500. I'd switch it to Spring Green. Smallbones 21:51, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I am okay with whatever non-main authors find clearer, change away. IvoShandor 21:54, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I started an article about Helena, Wisconsin and I hope it helps. maybe I am crazy for doing it. Thank you- RFD 21:52, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Red Mound and Retreat, Wisconsin in Vernon County, Wisconsin

I started articles about Red Mound, Wisconsin and Retreat, Wisconsin in Vernon County, Wisconsin in case you need them. Thank you- RFD 15:05, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Excellent, I will see where they fit in. This article, the main article and the Battle of Stillman's Run are the three our collaboration will attempt to get FA status for, on the way to a broader featured topic.IvoShandor 04:18, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copyedit

This article, or a portion of it, was copyedited by the League of Copyeditors in October 2007. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. Copyeditor(s): Cricketgirl 12:11, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

• I am finally finishing a copyedit I started a while ago. Since Ivo is on a wikibreak, I will leave these comments here.

1. I think it would be useful to put a caption on the photo in the Infobox.
2. Prelude: Based on what Ivo told me (see here) I moved Neapope's speech earlier in the night and clarified the timing of the militia that night and the following week in the paragraphs following.
3. Battle - I added a sentence that Blackhawk's band was almost certainly not involved in the Indian Creek Massacre, which the troops on the steamboat Warrior referred to when first opening fire on them.
4. Context - I put the statements by Street (day after the battle) and Grimsley (2005) in chronological order. Some of Grimsley's quotes about the blood making the Mississippi red might be effective in the Battle section.
5. Aftermath - I added Blackhawk's autobiography and death and made a few other copyedits

Will finish this tomorrow, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 04:43, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

• Finished the last two sections just now, done with my copyedits - looks good, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 02:58, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Now I see this, ha. Hmm. I am thinking of adding the quote you recommend here and expanding a bit on the military movements of both sides in the battle section. Any thoughts on what else to do for an FA bid? IvoShandor (talk) 01:26, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Battle?"

This can barely be known as such. Such reckless killing should be called a massacre. This is why I believe that the article should be changed to "Massacre of Bad Axe." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trilobite12 (talk • contribs) 00:07, March 5, 2008

• Thanks, while I agree it was a massacre, the name it is known by in reliable sources is Battle of Bad Axe. Do you have reliable sources that call it "Massacre of Bad Axe"? Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 00:20, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
• I wouldn't mind seeing it changed myself, WP has a habit of affecting how other outlets refer to incidents. At quick glance, I see that as early as 1903 published book authors were referring to it as "the Massacre of Bad Axe", and more recently I see that the Wisconsin Historical Society does the same. I think it's enough to call for a WP vote. Sherurcij ^{(Speaker for the Dead)} 01:10, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Does anyone want to start an RFC on the name change? On Google books, searching for the words Massacre Bad Axe gets 611 hits, while the exact phrase "Battle of Bad Axe" gets 617 hits, and "Bad Axe Massacre" gets 40 hits, but the Massacre books tend to be newer. I would support changing the name to Bad Axe Massacre. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:24, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

• As the primary author of most Wikipedia's content related to the Black Hawk War, I too would support the name change. The wonton murder that occurred at the mouth of the Bad Axe River can be accurately described in no other way. While many sources refer to it as a battle, just as many, some dating back to shortly after the conflict, have called it a massacre (this is briefly discussed within the article). IvoShandor (talk) 06:04, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

It's been a month with five straight voices in favour of the change, I went ahead and changed it. Sherurcij ^{(Speaker for the Dead)} 06:21, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I wonder if Bad Axe Massacre would be a bit better? IvoShandor (talk) 06:25, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I think it sounds better and nice to see you back. Thanks too to Sherurcij for making the move. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 00:06, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Not a problem, moved to the newer name. To be honest, I'd never heard of this until I came across the 1832 article sitting in my hands one day, and checked Wiki to find out what this "Bad Axe" was, and added the detail about the child. Sherurcij ^{(Speaker for the Dead)} 00:20, 5 April 2008 (UTC)