Talk:Bactria

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Please see the notes I wrote under the Daxia (Ta-Hsia) discussion page Thanks. John Hill.

1 Comment moved from article
2 Daxia = *Togara?
3 Only Tajiks can claim Bactrian descent?
4 Image
5 better map
6 Kingdom of Balhara

[edit] Comment moved from article

[[[[[Actually when this area was called Bactria there were no pashtuns living not even 500 km close to it.Bactria is a pure persian,dari,farsi,tajiki heritage and so the Avesta and the zoroastrian.The pure root of todays persian langauge is taken from ancient Bactria. The greatest parsian poets and writers were from Bactria. The history of the Pashtuns that are living around those area now adays goes back to 100 or 150 years ago. I request Mr Amanullah Ghilzai to research more and read some history books. He should try to write the real history. ]]]]]

In response to the above...there were no Tajiks living in the area either since they didn't exist. Explain how Bactrian is a "pure persian,dari,farsi,tajiki heritage" when Bactrian is considered an Eastern-Iranian language while Old Persian and all that came after are Western Iranian. It's rather foolish to inject your political bias into matters of history. That's not a very scholarly thing to do now, is it? I didn't think so.

Moved by Rich Farmbrough 09:02 23 August 2006 (GMT).

[edit] Daxia = *Togara?

I have had a reminder from a correspondent recently that in the article: "The Yüeh-chih and their migrations." by K. Enoki, G. A. Koshelenko and Z. Haidary. HCCA Vol. II, (1994) p. 173, the claim is made that: "As 'Ta-hsia' is an exact transcription of 'Tochara' (which was the central part of the Bactrian kingdom), if the Yüeh-chih were the Tocharians, the conquest of Ta-hsia by the Yüeh-chih means the conquest of the country of Tochara by the Tocharians, which seems rather strange. The evidence of Szŭ-ma Ch'ien shows that Ta-hsia cannot be the Bactrian kingdom, but was the country of Tochara divided into small political units at the time of the Yüeh-chih invasion. In other words the Graeco-Bactrian kingdom had already been destroyed or divided when the Yüeh-chih arrived. Therefore,there is no need to accept the identification of the Tocharas with the Yüeh-chih . .. ."

Although I am inclined to dismiss this argument and accept the prevailing view that the Yuezhi = the Tochari - I would be very interested if anyone here would like to comment on it. Many thanks, John Hill 11:08, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Only Tajiks can claim Bactrian descent?

To the self-proclaimed guardian of all things Bactrian, Behnam jaan:

I think not. Tajiks are as mixed as every other modern ethnicity. I have seen people claim in many articles that Tajiks are just Persians outside of Iran. If that is the case, how can they be descendants of Bactrians who were in fact Eastern Iranians. How can Tajiks speak a Western Iranian language, claim Western Iranian descent, AND make an exclusive claim to everything Bactrian? Your theory and your sources are shaky at best. Here's a suggestion...how about coming up with a hypothesis such as "Tajiks, and only Tajiks, are descendants of the Bactrians". Then find independent, unbiased sources that support your hypothesis before insisting that your theory is fact.

This is how arguments usually work, in case you did not already know.

You present a series of premises and your conclusion. You actually have to show that your premises are TRUE and that your conclusion, based on the proven premises, is true as well. I know that may be hard to believe, but that's how it is.

I don't see you cleansing other articles of the Tajik = Persian material, so it seems like you really are contradicting your own claims. Nice job. Keep it real homey.

There is no room for "claims" and arguments in Wikipedia, only sourced facts. It is sourced that Tajiks have one of their main ancestral lines as the Bactrians. This should be obvious since all you need to do is look at a map of Bactria. Regardless, there is no room for speculation here. Only material that is sourced stays. --Behnam 00:23, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Sourced facts? HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA. I'm sorry to tell you that there are very few historical FACTS. All historical data has been to one degree or another tainted. Providing unverifiable sources will not make fact out of theory. Go to hell with your sources. I'm not wasting any more time on you or that other delusional half wit. I can see how much peddling this propaganda means to you. Get a life, or better yet get an education.

Good. There is no place in Wikipedia for people who make up facts and try to forge a history and heritage for themselves. Either provide sources or don't write it. Also, even today Pashtuns are no where near Balkh. Prior to Abdur Rahman Khan's displacements there were no Pashtuns in northern Afghanistan what so ever. So how could Pashtuns exist in Balkh in classical times? Your speculation doesn't make sense in the first place, nevermind sources that you can't provide. If education means simply writing history the way you want it without a single source to back up your claim, then you can keep your education to yourself. Goodbye. --Behnam 02:40, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Pashtuns have nothing to do with Bactria. They are even immigrants in Southern Afghanistan.

--Anoshirawan 02:23, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Haha sure. Whatever you guys say. No matter what you do, Khorasan isn't coming back. Not in your lifetime, not ever. You will go to the grave with these wetdreams of Khorasan. How does it feel to not have a country? Hmmm? You both seem very very bitter. Peace out.

I am 100% sure this is Nisarkand.

--Anoshirawan 02:49, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm 100% sure you are wrong. Care to guess again you little twat? Does writing bullshit online make you feel smart or accomplished in any way? If so, you are a SAD accuse for a man. Khorasan is dead. If you don't like Afghanistan, there's plenty of room in Tajikistan. On top of that, maybe you can leave articles on Afghanistan to Afghans while you go and fuck up Tajikistan related articles. How does that sound sunshine?

And no matter what you write here, the reality on the ground in Afghanistan will be what it is, not what you wish it to be. Latif Pedram and his followers will never have his way. They might as well commit mass suicide or just move to Tajikistan.

Yes, this is most likely another (among dozens) sockpuppet of banned user: NisarKand. That's ok, he has been banned dozens of times and he will be banned again. Even if he is not NisarKand he will still be banned for using fake sources, writing psuedo science, throwing around accusations and insults, edit warring on no grounds, foul language, expressing hatred and racism toward others, supporting ethno fascism, and other reasons. We'll just ignore him for now until he gets banned. --Behnam 03:00, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

this proves how low and uneducated you are. After failing to provide us sources and proof to your un scholarly claims you start cursing and insulting us and calling mass genocide and ethnic cleansing in Afghanistan.

Crap and misleading information is info without any sources or reference. Afghanistan is part of Greater Khorasan and if we go, everything goes with us. --Anoshirawan 03:01, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Haha now that's just your imagination. You guys make me laugh. You might as well be describing your own activities here. Who called for ethnic cleansing? I said those who aren't happy should get up and leave. Latif Pedram and his followers I said she kill themselves.

Did I mention Greater Khorasan doesn't exist?

I have a proposition. If Khorasan is reborn in five years time, I will eat my foot. I will literally chop it off, grill it, and eat it. And if Khorasan doesn't come back, you can hang yourselves.

we arent against any ethnicities or groups and we have never called for ethnic cleansing but as you mentioned in your earlier post that non-pashtuns who wont accept Afghan should go and leave this region or commit suicide which is 100% inhuman. Afghanistan has failed in the past and will fail in the next 10 years and the only solution for this war-torn country will be to partition it.

--Anoshirawan 03:08, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I see your reading and comprehension skills haven't gotten any better.

How about you partition your legs like you do for Latif Pedram?

User:Khampalak, this is not a discussion forum. If you have nothing to contribute than stop wasting space on the discussion page. --Behnam 03:13, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

You are wasting your breath. I would be contributing accurate information and deleting your misinformation. But we both know that is a lost cause. The behavior you are seeing is the only thing that can get your attention apparently. I have a serious question for you. If you have no attachment to Afghanistan, if you want to see it divided, then why have you hijacked articles pertaining to Afghanistan. It it is not your country, then let people who know what they are talking about improve the damn articles.

I forgot to say kiss my ass.

I quit. By the way, I'm not Tajik or Pashtun. Hell, I'm not even Afghan. But I still know more than you.

Yes, that explains why you can't provide a single source for your claims. Goodbye. --Behnam 03:29, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Ghorbanat shavam.

[edit] Image

Godesses, Bactria, Afghanistan, 2000-1800 BCE

When this article becomes unprotected I would like to insert the following image: PHG 05:28, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] better map

The map is good, except you can't zoom in and it's too small to see (I can't read the names of the countries other than Afghanistan). Can we get a larger map? RJFJR (talk) 03:30, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Here's one from Commons: