Talk:Bacalhau

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[edit] Expensive

It used to be expensive? it is expensive. In Christmas it costs a fortune! -Pedro 22:15, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong picture

I removed a picture of cod hanging to dry. When fish hangs it is not saltet, the product is called stockfish, norwegian tørrfisk. The kind used in Bacalhau is also salted and is dried lying down, traditionally lying on cliffs (norw./danish klipper) hence the norwegian name klippfisk. --Ekko 15:19, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Comment: Actually, the norwegian word klippfisk comes from klepp, meaning a bare rock near the water. Not klippe, meaning cliff. --Qwerty qwerty 02:32, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps my english is not as good as i thought, but my norwegian is fairly good. Klepp and klippe has the same meaning; bare rock (klepp also meaning lump of flour in food and rod with hook for hooking fish). Perhaps cliff is not a proper translation in that a norwegian klippe need not be as vertical as an english cliff. Take a look at this page for a picture of the rock formations meant. --Ekko 06:04, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, a cliff is vertical, and in standard norwegian klippe is the same. A cliff is something entirely differnet. Cliff in norwegian is klippe, but this word has nothing to do with the klipp in klippfisk. The klipp in klippfisk stems from klepp, meaning a rock near the waterside. Logical seeing as the cod was laid out to dry in the sun. There is also another theory that klepp stems from a secondary meaning, namely the instrument in which the fisherman hooks the live fish in order to bring them into the boat from the line. --201.52.16.254 12:40, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Expansion

Bacalhau is indeed a Portuguese dish, but it's a popular dish all over the Mediterranean, just under slightly different names, like baccalà in Italy. What's the best way to incorporate all of these dishes under one title? | Klaw ¡digame! 19:05, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I think the best way to look at this is to make an article on bacalhau based on the Portugese and Brazilian tradition, one on the Spanish and another on the Italian.

One should also make an article on the fish product that all these dishes have in common: Clipfish. In this article one should have a complete reference to the use of clipfish worldwide.--Qwerty qwerty 02:41, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] {{globalize}} tag

My last comment on this page contains the reason I added the geo-limited tag. This isn't just a Portuguese dish/ingredient; it's used in Italy, Spain (particularly in Basque cuisine), and Latin America, and I'd bet that it appears in some form in other Mediterranean cuisines as well. The article needs to reflect the dish's wide reach and popularity. | Klaw ¡digame! 19:44, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

  • hm?!?!?!?! see: Pizza We also eat pizza and there are even Portuguese recipes and Portuguese Pizzas, do we need to tag that article? I think the tag should be removed, if dry cod is served in Italy, then you should add that in Italian cuisine, not here. Obviously that is not only consumed in Portugal. The article is already too globalized. It needs expansion not that tag. It also has some errors; I’m trying to get some info. "Bacalhau is a Portuguese word and dish, if there are similar ones, or it is eaten elsewhere, that's good, you may add a comment about that.-Pedro 20:03, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
  • The words in Spanish and Italian are quite similar. In the English language wikipedia it should be called "Salted codfish" and all the articles combined. The particular dishes belong in the appropriate cuisine section. Thats's my 2 cents' worth. THB 13:34, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
  • this is the appropriate cuisine section/article. If you want to create an article about Salted codfish be my guest. What that has to do with this? Or what does etymology has to do with this also? There are articles about various recipes, so I don't get what's your problem. This is specifically about the Portuguese dish that is known as Bacalhau even in English, as far as I know and it is a quite notable group of recipes to deserve a proper article. A portuguese dictionary states that the word is from Latin baccalaureu. http://www.priberam.pt/dlpo/definir_resultados.aspx?pal=bacalhau (what a surprise...). --Pedro 14:22, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
  • I agree with THB that all of the salt cod dishes belong under one article. I think we should expand this article to include all of the national variations on the dish, and then deal with nomenclature. In the meantime, I've put a redirect at Salt cod that points here. | Klaw ¡digame! 15:56, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

This re-direct should go to the article clipfish instead. Now, the article bacalhau explains the particluar portugese and brazilian dishes that uses salted cod, or clipfish as it is called. --201.52.16.254 12:43, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is bacalhau a dish?

Yes, bacalhau is used to refer to dishes, too, but not ONE dish. Doesn't the name bacalhau refer to the fish product that in english is called clipfish (dried, salted cod)? All the different dried, salted cod recipes of Portugal or Brazil, are exactely that: Different, so the name bacalhau can't be used as a meaningful reference to any single dish. Bacalhau Gomes de Se is quite different from Bacalhau Vizcaina, for example.

The only thing in common with these dishes is the use of dried, salted cod.

Which people in Brazil and Portugal call bacalhau.

In Brazil, if you ask for bacalhau, you get clipfish.

With regards to this I think that the article on bacalhau, should be about the fish product clipfish first and foremost. This article should also refer to other words used to describe this product, like baccala in Italia and klippfisk in Norway, and clipfish in English.

The fish is the main point when talking about bacalhau.

The article should also be marked with a portugese and brazilian flag, to indicate that it's related to the language and culture of these two countries. The best thing would be to have an article called clipfish, which I indeed have made now.

Note that there exists another fish product similar to clipfish, called stoccafisso. The main difference between the two is that the latter is simply dried, whereas clipfish is also salted.

An interesting observation is that dried, salted cod in Venice and Veneto is called stoccafisso, whereas salted cod is called baccala. In other words, the complete opposite of the rest of Italy, and very confusing. --Qwerty qwerty 23:50, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fasting and salt cod

The article currently says:

One of the reasons for this popularity in Portugal and other Catholic countries, was because of the many days (Fridays, Lent, and other festivals) on which the Church forbad the eating of meat. Bacalhau dishes were eaten instead.

Well, all of Western Europe was Catholic until the Reformation, and some non-Catholics also fast. What's more, France, Belgium, southern Germany, Austria, Croatia, etc. remain Catholic, but salt cod does not have a large role in their cuisines. So this is a weak explanation. --Macrakis 18:15, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Hello again. You are of course correct about the countries being Catholic, but perhaps one can hypothesise that the Church had until recently, or arguably still has, more influence on people's daily lives in Portugal, Spain, and Italy than the others. That is original research, I know. But Mr Cod's research (unfortunately I have returned his "biography" to the library) makes the argument as presented in the passage above. Until we've got something better, I think it has to stay. It is a substantial book. BrainyBabe 22:43, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Salt cod is quite known and used in France under the name morue, and it was indeed a staple of 'lean' days, when meat was forbidden. Chris CII 13:28, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely, but bacalhau has much greater importance in the cuisine of Portugal than in that of France. --Macrakis 18:07, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
It would be good to link to the French wiki "morue" page. Does anyone know how to do this? BrainyBabe 18:32, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
Linking to morue wouldn't be very useful as that page decribes the cod, and only has a little paragraph on the salted fish. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morue (Sorry I forgot to sign)Chris CII 14:51, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I had looked at the French page (I read French) and whilst it is not long or detailed, its very brevity says something about the importance of the dish in the cuisine: it isn't central (like bread) or massively culturally significant (like foie gras). Anyway, the page may grow. BrainyBabe 12:50, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is there a dish called "Bacalhau"?

I have often enjoyed salt cod-based dishes here in Cambridge, Massachusetts (where we have a large Portuguese, Cap Verdean, and Brazilian population), in New Bedford, Massachusetts, in Madeira, and in Brazil. There is no question that salt cod is an important element in Portuguese cuisine. However, it seems unlikely that there is a specific dish called "bacalhau"--in fact, the long list of dishes in the article (bacalhau com X = salt cod with X; bacalhau à moda de Y = salt cod, Y-style; bolinhos de bacalhau = salt cod fritters; etc.) makes it clear that this is simply the name of an ingredient. Similarly, there are many dishes called "galinha com X", "galinha à moda de Y" etc. Surely no one would claim that galinha (= chicken) is the name of a dish rather than the name of an ingredient. Therefore, it seems that this article should be merged with Dried and salted cod, which definitely needs a cookery section. --Macrakis 21:26, 15 September 2007 (UTC)