Talk:Bảo Đại
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Previous discussions moved to:
THIS ARTICLE HAS MANY NNPOV VIOLATIONS AND SIMPLE FACTUAL ERRORS
1) It has been disputed as to whether or not Bao Dai was actually Khai Dinh's son. Oscar Chapuis' book "The Last Emperors of Vietnam" says as much. I do not believe it because the two looked so much alike, but it should be noted.
2) It should be mentioned that Empress Nam Phuong did not enjoy her marriage and her husband's constant infidelities; in the Chapuis book he relates how she almost shot Bao Dai at one point. Also, Bao Dai did not convert to Catholicism to marry her -that is absurd. He was a Confucian Vietnamese Emperor when he married her and to become a Catholic would have been absolutely impossible for someone still claiming to be the "Son of Heaven". He converted to Catholicism decades later while in exile in France.
3)This statement is POV and makes no sense, "The Japanese promised not to interfere with the court at Hue but in 1945 forced Bao Dai to declare Vietnam's independence from France as a member of Japan's "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere." The Japanese had a Vietnamese pretender, Prince Cuong De, waiting to take power in case Bao Dai refused." -By saying they had someone waiting to take his place if he chose NOT to collaborate proves that he DID have a choice -and he chose to cooperate with the Japanese.
4) This statement "Bao Dai still held great influence among political figures in the Quang Tri and Thua Thien Provinces and also in the city of Hue, the ancient capital of Vietnam. The Communist government of North Vietnam sent representatives to France hoping that Bao Dai would become a member of a coalition government to re-unite Vietnam, which would also attract his supporters in the regions where he has influence." -should have some sources provided to back it up -I seriously doubt Bao Dai had any considerable support after jumping ship so many times from France to Japan to Ho Chi Minh and back to France to keep his own position.
5) This is incomplete information: "While in the United States, Emperor Bao Dai gauged opinion among the exiled Vietnamese-American community, hoping to find a route towards national reconciliation." -it is POV because it does not go on to state the results of this effort; that he found no support and was treated rather harshly by many Vietnamese-Americans again because of his past history of selling them out so many times to save his own lifestyle.
This article, and many other modifications that have been done to Nguyen emperors pages is extremely biased. You will not find one serious, scholarly book or article that speaks about Bao Dai or most of his predecessors in anywhere close to such glowing terms. Like all dynasties in decline (much like the Qing in China) they were extremely unpopular and seen as corrupt, luxury-minded and subservient to foreign rule. Bao Dai in particular was thought of in this way since he grew up and was educated by Vietnam's rulers and tormentors, was known for all of his many mistresses and gambling, and while his people were starving and being taxed to death he was going on big hunting trips and building massive palaces in the south -and all based on French architecture just to add insult to injury. The pro-Nguyen revisionism agenda being pushed on Wikipedia needs to stop. NguyenHue 02:37, 7 September 2005 (UTC)NguyenHue
[edit] Emperor Bao Dai info is neutral
-Emperor Bao Dai visit to the United States: Link: [[1]]
-"Bao Dai still held great influence among political figures in the Quang Tri and Thua Thien Provinces and also in the city of Hue, the ancient capital of Vietnam. The Communist government of North Vietnam sent representatives to France hoping that Bao Dai would become a member of a coalition government to re-unite Vietnam, which would also attract his supporters in the regions where he has influence."
The Quang 1205 Document: [[2]]
Bnguyen 23:21, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] try again
Yes, yes, you have posted this link over and over again, but it is not from a neutral source and says nothing about the overall success of the visit. Personally, I doubt Bao Dai would have been so naive to have the grand goals in mind that you claim, but that's another matter.
Further, saying what someone else said is not proof of anything. Can you present anything to validate that second document? Can you show any documented evidence of the Emperor's supposed popularity in this one province?
NguyenHue 05:42, 19 September 2005 (UTC)NguyenHue
[edit] Completely unbalanced article, no discussion of collaboration
I'm interested in the fact that this article, which amounts to a hagiography, has no discussion of collaboration between Bao Dai and the Japanese, or with the French, and the deep resentment and problems this caused for many Vietnamese in the civil war, and in the resistance during the colonial/Japanese period.
[edit] What does this quote mean?
"I do not wish a foreign army to spill the blood of my people." - Emperor Bảo Đại when informed that the Allies had placed the Japanese garrison at his disposal to defend the Imperial City from the Việt Minh.
This needs more elaboration. The Allies were at war with the Japanese, how could they put a Japanese garrison at the disposal of Bảo Đại? If this happened after WWII, how did the Japanese have a garrison in a foreign country, and who, exactly, were the Allies at that point?
[edit] Quotes section
We need context for these quotes. When did he issue them? Funnyhat 17:12, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Bao Dai Time.jpg
Image:Bao Dai Time.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 23:26, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Additional Information on the Emperor's Order of Annam
By now, it should be noted that "Prince" Buu Chanh, took upon himself the responsibility to reorganize the former Emperor's Order of the Dragon of Annam. An excellent article on this event is covered in Mr Guy Stair Sainty's book, "Burke's Peerage and Gentry - World Orders of Knighthood & Merit" on page 1879. According to Wikipedia, "Order of the Dragon of Annam" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Dragon_of_Annam "Prince Bảo Vang of Vietnam currently serves as the Grandmaster of the Order of the Dragon of Annam [1] under Crown Prince Bảo Long of Vietnam. The position is non-political in Vietnamese politics and the role of the royal family under the leadership of Crown Prince Bảo Long is for humanitarian, educational, and cultural endeavors of the people of Vietnam."
Actually "Prince" Buu Chanh "stepped down" to allow the rightful leader and Crown Prince Bao Long access to the order. Initially I worked for Mr. Buu Chanh but was later rewarded an honorary title and knighthood in the Order by Prince Bảo Vang under the authority of the Crown Prince.
Mr. Buu Chanh, a great patron for Vietnamese freedom lives in Chicago. He is no longer involved in anyway with the Order. It should be noted that the Order revived under questionable authority (Sainty) is now a true and recognized order of the Imperial House of Annam. It is not a state order of Vietnam which has several important and prestigious orders of merit. There are still some followers of Mr. Buu Chanh.
Dr Lindgren 16:24, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Paris-Emperor Bao Dai.jpg
Image:Paris-Emperor Bao Dai.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot (talk) 17:58, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
