Talk:Azumanga Daioh/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

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Are Sakaki and Yomi really Americans, or was that just Osaka being... well... Osaka?

Just Osaka being Osaka, what with Americans on average having larger breasts than Japanese people.

I have heard that Osaka is actually from Kobe (both cities being "the boonies" to Tokyo-ites and often confused) but find anything to corrobate this rumor.

In the first manga volume, soon after Osaka gains her nickname, she remarks to Tomo that although she is technically from Osaka, she spent most of her childhood in Kobe, and was born in Wakayama. Tomo replied, "Wakayama?! I don't even know where that is! Just be Osaka, okay?"
This is a sort of joke for Japanese. Compared to Osaka, which is known as a wild place, Kobe is more sophisticated and "European" because of its port and Wakayama is basically a middle of nowhere. The way she dresses reflects this. In the group picture on this page, Osaka is dressed in a conservative Kobe-style with her long skirt, a hut and a purse. --Revth 07:36, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

I've noticed there are no images. I've been trying to figure out the copyright issues involved; would it be a flat-out violation of copyright to post a few example images from the show, such as of the characters? How does this fall under the "fair use" concept? I mean, it would be a picture of a copyrighted work, after all, what would that mean? I've tried to figure it out from the copyright information section of Wikipedia, but copyright law makes my head hurt. --Dirk Gently 02:26, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

AFAIK, this would fall under fair use. Screenshots are generally okay. I wouldn't post a whole page from the manga, but cover art or a frame from the anime shouldn't cause problems. --Shibboleth 09:21, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
OK, thanks. In that case, it seems to me that a (piece of a) frame from the anime would do well to show the main characters. What do you (anyone, of course) think? Dirk Gently 02:30, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Have added a screenshot; comments appreciated. Lan3y - Talk 01:07, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)
Sorry I never got back to this. Looks good to me, Lan3y. --Dirk Gently 02:33, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Incidentally, I added a thumbnail of the show's logo at the top right a while ago too. --Defragged 11:44, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
And that logo seems to have disapeared from the wiki [1]. Not sure if this is tech difficulties or because or fair use violations. No change has been made to the actual image page or in it's discussion regarding this, so I have no idea. I still have the source file ready to re-upload if/when I find out what happened to it. Until then, I'll take out the articles thumbnail reference to the logo.--Defragged 28 June 2005 12:15 (UTC)
And it's back, with a (del) (cur) 16:24, 1 June 2005 . . Conversion script (38424 bytes) ((recovered file, missing upload log entry)) message --Defragged 15:29, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Er, consdering the recent change in Maya/Mayaa's name, well, what do people think of this? "Mayaa" seems a bit odd to me; I've never seen that spelling in the manga or anime ("Maya" there), though I saw only fansubs of the anime. Not a big deal, but I thought I'd mention it. (Does anyone know what the cat's untranslated name is? eg, まや or まやあ or something)

It's written as マヤー, a shortened version of ヤママヤー, which is another name for the Iriomote Wildcat. Fadeblue 05:10, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
Ah, thanks. I guess the ー explains the "aa." --Dirk Gently 19:20:34, 2005-08-02 (UTC) (That's me up above, heh, just forgot my sig)

Yomi and Asperger's

I've never heard this theory. While some of Yomi's traits may be associated with Asperger's, she also seems to be missing some symptoms -- there's no sign that she's missing any social cues, for instance. Unless this can be shown to be a widespread speculation, I think it's best taken out. -- Antaeus Feldspar 11:34, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Seems to be BS. There's no mention of Asperger's in Azumanga. — Gwalla | Talk 21:51, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Somebody just added a long passage comparing Osaka's behavior to schizophrenia. I reverted it, since it's entirely speculative, and equated daydreams with hallucinations (huh?). — Gwalla | Talk 22:45, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Miruchi and Yuka's "resemblance" to Yukari and Minamo

Some people seem to think that Chiyo-chan's friends, Miruchi and Yuka, bear a resemblance to the series' teachers, Yukari Tanazaki and Minamo Kurosawa, respectively. I can only assume that they think that this "resemblance" is intentional on Kiyohiko Azuma's part. If they can't find a statement from him proving this resemblance, that bit of info shouldn't be in the article. I've certainly never heard any Azumanga Daioh fans discuss this "resemblance". It's always fine to add more info about the characters, but conjecture like this doesn't count.

You can see Chiyo's friends here: http://rakhal.com/florestica/comics/azumanga03/azumanga-1-031-001.jpg
(taken from http://rakhal.com/florestica/newsletter/ - scroll down)

And here's Yukari and Minamo: http://www.animegalleries.net/albums/Azumanga_Daioh/yukari-nyamo/azu_yukarinyamo0057.jpg
(taken from http://www.animegalleries.net/album/854/page/4)

The only visible "resemblance" is that one has long hair and the other has short hair. Beyond that, there's no simimarities in facial features, clothing, personality, or any dialogue that would hint at anything more than a vague coincidence. Even their hairstyles, the main "resemblance", are quite different. Yukari's is wavier and darker with more bangs, and Minamo's is shorter and much less of a shag cut, with her trademark "sideburns".

That being said, I'm going to edit the comment out and direct them to this page. If they come up with reasonable proof of resemblance beyond their own conjecture, they're welcome to put the comment back in. --Marcg106 16:09, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yomi's Weight

I cut out the bit about Yomi only percieving herself as overweight...this is just as much speculation as assuming that the art style doesn't allow it. I still believe that Yomi IS supposed to be overweight: Osaka readily accepts Tomo's assertion that 'Yomi bends easy cause she's chubby', which the literal-minded girl would not do if the physical evidence wasn't there. In any case, I like how it currently stands. Kurohone 20:36, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Osaka also readily accepted Tomo's story about the mold monsters, and that it would be possible for them to get into Wimbledon by playing volleyball in PE class. Osaka lives in a world of her own, really...
True, but if you look at a lot of the large colour arts, you'll notice that Yomi's stomach is (usually) drawn a little different to the other girl's. May be just poor fitting clothes, but I'm pretty sure that she's meant to be slightly overweight too (not to the extent where she has to diet, but she IS surrounded by stick-women) --Oppolo 20:02, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
She's whichever is funnier at the moment. Actually overweight or just under the impression that she is.
Which coverart are you referring to specifically? I'd like to see if I can notice this difference. --202.63.34.157 08:06, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Sakaki

I dont understand why Sakaki redirects here, while clearly it's a name of tree in Japan, Cleyera Japonica.

Because there is no article on the Sakaki tree. -Js2756 13:07, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

Yuri/Shoujo-Ai Pairings

Why is this even in this article? There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever of any romantic inclinations between pairings of characters, besides the obvious one of Kimura and his wife. The closest there is to romantic feelings between any two characters is Kaorin's infatuation with Sakaki. There really isn't any reason for any of this yuri/shoujo pairing stuff to be in this article as it is completely unsupported by the anime/manga and purely speculatory. -Js2756 02:27, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Whether it should be kept depends on the focus of the article, and whether fan speculation should be included in articles of this sort is an open question. My personal opinion is that it should. One could solve the question by moving the fan speculations to a separate part of the article: it would take a major edit but might evlimante the problem of distinguishing between fanon and canon. Nonetheless, shoujo-ai and related topics are a vital theme in the fandom and deserve to be mentioned at some point rather than dismissed out-of-hand. -Michael Hopcroft 22:24, 24 November 2005 (PST)
I agree. It's an important part of how the show is perceived, and none of the references in the article itself make themselves out to be statements of fact. They're referred to only as the considerations of the fans. Considering the longstanding presence of lesbian or female bisexual relationships in manga and anime, it's not ridiculous to include notations on how this can be inferred from what we see in the series. (Heck, at one point Yukari practically admits to going on a date with Kurosawa, even if she's embarrassed about it.) As long as it's presented as just an interpretation, and one that's held by such a large amount of the show's audience, let it stay. RannXXV 07:40, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
No, Js2756 is right on this one. This is the article about Azumanga Daioh, not about Azumanga Daioh fandom. What fans believe "can be inferred from what we see in the series" is not really encyclopedic material. -- Antaeus Feldspar 19:36, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
If you want to be really anal retentive about it, neither are individual anime series. Or characters of series. Or any other number things which Wikipedia covers. It's an encyclopedia, yes, but in the case of entries like this it is an encyclopedia that is built and contributed to by fans. So yes, fandom is in fact an aspect of this entry. If you're going to start calling for the removal of anything not of a strictly encyclopedic nature, we can cull this down to "Azumanga Daioh is an animated series produced in Japan. It is about a group of girls in High School. It was created by Kiyohiko Azuma." There, it's covered the exact specifics of what it is and no more. - RannXXV 21:37, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
There's no need to get hostile here.
In any case, for an encyclopedic article about a creative work (emphasizing the creative work itself), fact should be separated from interpretation. If one were to use the article as a source, it needs to be immediately clear what is and what is not speculation; otherwise, it is loses its value as an encyclopedic reference. If such speculation is deemed germane to the article, then it should be moved into a separate section titled "Interpretations" or something along those lines. -Fadeblue 22:48, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
There is, of course, a very great difference between "here are the verifiable details of the canon of a fictional show that was aired nationally" and "here are the details of speculations by some fans of that show, which those fans assure us are veryvery important interpretations and veryvery widely shared in the fandom." Your argument that either both the real, verifiable details of the manga and the nationally aired show and some fans' ideas of what the show's OTPs are are "encyclopedic", or neither are, is amusing, but it doesn't hold water. -- Antaeus Feldspar 16:35, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
Exactly...it's the same thing as the crap about Osaka and Aspergers. For some reason this is given the same credence in the article as the actual facts of the manga/anime as can be verifiably referenced. A seperate section (if not article) about Speculation and Rumours would probably be an encyclopedic way to get both aspects (the canon and the fanon) installed. That way those interested in the show itself, rather than purely speculative notions of fans can get that without having to get the other...and vice versa. Kurohone 20:25, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
This stuff should be removed from the article, period. It has no encyclopedic value whatsoever. At least descriptions of the characters' personalities are verifiable by anyone who watches the show. The yuri/shojo-ai pairings only exist in the mind of those who want them to exist. In short, it's baseless, worthless fan speculation. Keep fanon and the dreams of fanfiction writers out of Wikipedia. I've come across very few examples in this site where there was a decent reason to keep this sort of material. It does nothing except give the wrong impression to new readers. This material shouldn't stay up for much longer. If we don't get some mindblowing defense, it'll be edited out sometime this week. --Marcg106 06:22, 1 December 2005 (UTC)


What, and your hostility towards it isn't "baseless, worthless fan speculation"? Your tone makes it clear that you're just ticked off because it's not a view you share of the series. At least the other people commenting on it were making an attempt to appear as if they were neutral and simply didn't believe the information belonged, but you've just got some rage issues over it. While I might have left along any of them editing it and just considered it an inevitability, if you do so I'd consider it vandalism and say it should be reverted, because you're just angry over it being a view you disagree with, not a view that's invalid. -- RannXXV 19:47, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
The problem that I have with it being in there with descriptions of personality is that it is subjective, not objective. It can objectively be seen that Tomo is hyper, that Sakaki is shy, that Chiyo is excitable. The subjectivity comes from the interpretation of why that might be. This is doubly difficult when it is (presumably) a Western audience writing about a Japanese story...remember, that cultural norms are extremely different, particularly those regarding friendships. To state that Tomo and Yomi, or Yukari and Minamo have a romantic relationship is to state an opinion...there is at no point anywhere in the anime or manga that would provide incontrovertiable backing for that assessment.
I think it should be removed from the character description section, and placed in a subcategory. If noone else takes this on in a few days, I'll do it myself. Kurohone 05:00, 4 December 2005 (UTC)


I've no problems whatsoever with it being put in its own section, such as "Viewpoints and Speculation", since I still consider it a valid interpretation but it might go over better outside of the regular character profiles. -RannXXV 20:48, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I have reworded the entire article, not because of this discussion alone, but it was difficult to read because it kept jumping back and forth between topics. I have included said section about "Viewpoints and Speculation" and have moved anything to do with fandom into it from the character profiles. Although I haven't been a part of this discussion up until now, I hope it resolves the issue. - Squilibob 23:29, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
I like this! An elegant solution, although it could use some expansion. I think several serious could benefit from an application of something similar -- Card Captor Sakura particularly stands out in my mind. Michael Hopcroft 20:50, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Cheers! Nice work, and it really does improve the readability of the article. Kurohone 04:51, 9 December 2005 (UTC)


Question

Question: I was wondering what those short scenes with the "Ah!" bubble mean. In the New Year's dream episode, there was one after each character's dream. I'm wondering if it's a Japanese thing. Thanks!

I think it's just a quirk of the show. It's used as the eyecatch as well. - Squilibob 11:06, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
I think it's A for Azumanga. It's the first character of the Japanese name anyway. As for its function, it might be used to indicate a commercial break or something. —This unsigned comment was added by 81.69.25.24 (talk • contribs) .

The 'あ!' is kind of like Azumanga Daioh's little emblem. -Anonymous —This unsigned comment was added by 219.95.0.78 (talk • contribs) .

A list of Azumanga Daioh episodes

Is there any interest in creating a list of Azumanga Daioh episodes? This is clearly Wikipedia convention for several shows with large followings. Also, many shorts or episodes could have their own articles, again, as per wikipedia convention of episode of a TV show article- because there are a lot of things that could be explained to an english speaking audience that would be taken as read by a Japanese audience. Unfortunately, I have neither the special expertise in Japanese culture, nor do I really know the precise interpretation of Kaorin seeing a kitty-cat in the locker room in the first episode. I don't even have the gall to hazard a guess.

So in conclusion, anybody think this should exist, go ahead and say so. Then we can all start, and I'll help for whatever I'm worth in this venture.


Also, can we clean up this talk page? It seems like a lot of these issues are already resolved. Lotusduck 02:19, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Archived - Squilibob 11:06, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

The problem I see is, how would one classify an episode? Would you list them by their original five minute segments and titles, or as they were grouped together for episodic release on the DVDs? Either way, it would probably be too long to include as part of the article. If they were done in the format of the original five-minute segments, then there would probably be enough of them to have their own article. (Otherwise, it might seem a little short for an article all its own. And Kaorin saw a kitty cat because she caught a glimpse of Sakaki's panties, which had a kitty on them. It's more blatantly spelled out in the manga, but in the anime you'll notice that immediately after the flash of the cute cat print, it goes to Sakaki finishing pulling her shorts up and Kaorin looking over with that odd expression on her face. -RannXXV 03:34, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, 125 episodes would seem more reasonable for an article called "list of azumanga daioh episodes" than 25, but 25 seems an equally reasonable number of episodes to qualify for a list. There are only 22 episodes in the list of Star Trek the animated series episodes. And dare I say that that is more obscure. Here's a question- would the amount of information put up about any given 5 minute segment make that episode a stub? Or would having each dvd release episode with 5 subdividers make that article too long?Lotusduck 17:27, 26 December 2005 (UTC)


Hm, I definitely wouldn't say that each individual episode needs its own article either way. If we do a separate article for episodes, I'd put them all in a single other article as a list and set of fairly short synopses. I think even if we did the five-minute episode splits, as long as the synopses weren't describing every single little thing that happens, it wouldn't get too long for a single article. -RannXXV 17:43, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
That's a good point. That could probably work, with just breif explanations of Japanese culture as seen in the show and explanations of events from the Manga. The article would be titled "Azumanga Daioh Episodes"Lotusduck 19:07, 26 December 2005 (UTC)
If each episode was also given its own section heading in the Azumanga Daioh Episodes article, that way we could also put a list of just the titles here in the main article and then Wikify them. -RannXXV 04:47, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
The article would be a list of episodes, so instead of "Azumanga Daioh Episodes" shouldn't you be using "List of Azumanga Daioh Episodes" ? - Squilibob 11:06, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

That's a good question. This would be unlike most lists of episodes, because it would just be episodes and their descriptions, so it would be less listy in that way. It might be more like an archive than like a list.Lotusduck 19:27, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

You know what? If we can do something to reverse the precedent that lists must be dry and devoid of information on the things that are listed, lets. Lets call it List of Azumanga Daioh Episodes. Lotusduck 19:19, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

By the way, the proper title should be List of Azumanga Daioh episodes ("episodes" not capitalized). -Fadeblue 20:24, 28 December 2005 (UTC)