Talk:Aviator

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[edit] Different categories of famous aviators

Personally I do not think JFK jr would qualify as a well know aviator. He may have been a well known public figure but this guy was far from beening well known for his flying.

(please sign your comments; presumably you are Captain433180) - I would agree at first blush, but the list does already run a continuum from the Wrights to people like Dennis Quaid and John Travolta. Then there's John Denver, sadly in the same category as JFKJr. It's a bizarre list anyway - no Ernie Gann at present? - but the community needs a decision what "well-known aviators" means. If it means "well-known people who fly or flew" it could be endless. If it means "notable people who are primarily known to history or currently for aviating" we might be able to make it more precise but less interesting (Branson in or out?) DavidBrooks 18:17, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
sorry about forgetting the signature. Anyways, my beef was that when this incident happened very few people knew that he had valid licence, may it be tragic and thats one of the things that people will remember him for I still think its a weak addition. But I do agree that this list is a strange one and he should stay until there is a more clearly stated who/what qualifies. However, most people know that Travotla flies and as well as Harrison Ford (who is not on the list). To resopond about Brandson...I not sold on the guy but I would have to say yes. Captain433180 00:11, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
No prob; I got scolded myself recently for the same thing. I think two lists: people who are primarily known as aviators and people for whom piloting is a factor in what we know about them. JFKJr would fit in the 2nd list, if only because of the notoriety around the accident. Some people are on the cusp; I'd put Bach and St Ex on the 1st list for example. I also think all the details about US certificates don't belong here and volunteer to branch it off. The pages relating to various ratings need rationalization anyway.
I can't believe I didn't sign the above... anyway, how's the list look now? Maybe I'll have time to hive off the ratings stuff over the holidays. DavidBrooks 18:17, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I like what you have done. I will do my best aswell. This atleast attempts to separate things and not insult other people who think that someone should or should not be on the list.. Captain433180 02:03, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Relationship with Category:Aviators

I just realized Category:Aviators points directly to 128 entries (including this one, of course), and indirectly to several more. So is this list redundant? Perhaps this list should be limited to people of particular note. I think most of them in the Category list are "pure" pilots, but not all: it includes Harrison Ford, King Hussein, and W. Given that, does the list on this page actually include the most prominent members of each category? I'm not even particularly well-steeped in the history. David Brooks 00:37, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

You are correct. I have a more biased view on who an aviator is and also only a grasp on German and Canadian history. Captain433180 15:11, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Licences

  • A Aerobatic rating differs COMPLETELY from an Aerobatic Instructors rating.Captain433180 05:17, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I figured that all the dry details about American and Canadian license requirements were detracting from the point of this article. Licensing is about regulation, not the joy of flying. Check out Pilot licenses, which preserves some of the original text. David Brooks 03:16, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

  • Why did someone add licensing info when there is a separate topic for that... anyone else game for moving that to the licensing article???--Captain433180 04:59, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, definitely. Licensing is a different topic. I am working on the Pilot licensing in Canada article. The ones for the US and UK are just as involved. There is no point repeating all that here. Icitrom 12:25, 30 July 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Patrick Weaver

To the anon who keeps adding Patrick Weaver to the list of "People largely known for their contributions to the story of aviation": please provide a justification here. The only Pat[rick] Weaver I can find connected to aviation is a mechanic out of Maryland. I can't find a historical reference. David Brooks 16:19, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] John Kerry

Why is John Kerry on the list? Taking some flight instruction does not justify classification as an aviator or a contributor to the field of aviation. Dave 01:20, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, according to [1], John Kerry told The Boston Globe:
"Like most pilots, I'll fly anything I can get my hands on that I'm licensed to or allowed to [...] I have a commercial, instrument [pilot's licenses], and glider rating and also a seaplane rating. I've flown now for 35 years since I got my license back in '66."
That said, People from other walks of life with aviation in their history seems to me a cumbersome and not-very-descriptive title. Drew 01:31, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
It was my phrase, and I don't much like it either. So fix it! David Brooks 03:02, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
And, for the record, his second class medical was issued Dec 2004, and hence is current for 3rd class operations. His Commercial was issued in 1986. I suspect the original comment may have derived its origin from a politically motivated source :-) David Brooks 04:49, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This page's move

This is clearly the wrong title for the page. I suggest moving this back to "Aviator" and possibly adding the reference to the videogame in the disambig paragraph. That means an administrator has to delete the new "Aviator" disambig page. Alternatively (I never liked the page title) it could be renamed "Pilot (aviation)" but that would require redirecting 50 links. Any opinions out there? David Brooks 16:07, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

  • I fixed it. You may now proceed. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 01:12, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Anyone can fly

"Anyone can fly an aircraft, with or without a certificate. However, at all times the aircraft must be under the operational control of a properly certified and current pilot, who is responsible for the safe and legal completion of the flight. The absolute authority given to the Pilot in Command is derived from that of a ship’s captain." Does anyone know if this is true in most jurisdictions? DJ Clayworth 18:02, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Probably not. Thanks for pointing that out. Without a comprehensive survey, one could put "In some jurisdictions" or "In many jurisdictions", although they are both weak statements and I would guess it's true of all English-speaking jurisdictions. David Brooks
that statement above is ture. In Canada and US the aircraft must be in Operational control of a qualified pilot but someone else can be "at the controls". So "anyone can fly in technically correct".--Captain433180 02:47, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, if the flight ends in an accident at least the pilot will have a lot of problems. The (wo-)man who flew but isn´t pilot will probably also have problems. Apart from this I think the statement isn´t true because you must have a licence! You can´t buy this only for money! You also have to prove that you can fly! Dagadt

[edit] Piloting has its own meaning

You can pilot a boat and a ship and neither of these is similar to aircraft flying. I think the term Piloting or Pilot needs its own page; that is to say, not just a disambiguation page. All of these types of piloting share a common theme. After a discussion of piloting in general there ought to be links to the different piloting pages. As of now, piloting redirects to Aviator and pilot redirects to the pilot disambiguation page. Regards, Icitrom 12:31, 30 July 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Military pilots

1. There are very few military pilots listed. Anyone like to add? 2. The title was Other famous military pilots, which is misleading. I'll take out the 'other' - but someone may want to rethink all this.--Tony in Devon 13:59, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

3. [This belongs in the first section regarding the definition of aviator. In the United States, historically, United States Navy pilots have called themselves naval aviators. This seems to be a deliberate attempt to separate themselves from United States Army (and later US Air Force) "pilots". --Jmalin 19:50, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Co-pilot

Hi. Co-pilot currently redirects here. I will be changing the redirect to First officer, since that's almost universally how the term is used. --Storkk 12:04, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

You have to call them First officer you´re right! Dagadt

[edit] Pilot (spaceflight)

There's a very brief Rocketry stub with above title which it has been suggested comes to this page. Sounds a good idea. --Tony in Devon 13:19, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pilot numbers

"The United States Federal Aviation Administration estimates there are 609,737 active pilots"

I'm assuming this is just US pilots. --Gbleem 03:07, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

look, this article is weirdly written, and it feels pretty awkward reading it. Please normalize the article. 83.25.255.134 00:06, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Benefits

Why does the section on Avaitors in Space talk about the benefits that some companies offer?--Corbec023 (talk) 18:37, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Overhaul needed

I think this article needs a complete overhaul. Here are my issues with it:

  • Civilian section is broken into US & International. It should be a worldwide overview, or an overview of various countries, NOT USA versus the world.
  • Civilian section is focused on pay rate, which is not the main reason most pilots take up aviation. Again, a very US slanted side is presented.
  • Well-known aviators is not really appropriate. People like the Wright Brothers deserve a mention, but a list as big as this is not really needed. Possible move the lists to a seperate page.
Agreed. There already is a separate article titled List of aviators. -AndrewDressel (talk) 13:56, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Excellent. It almost looks as if the two lists are very similar. Anyone other than the Wright Brothers we should leave in this article, or should they go as well? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whippen (talk • contribs) 14:39, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Only military and airline pilots are mentioned. This neglects general aviation, recreation, glider, helicopter and possible others I have missed.
  • I'm sure we could do with other sections too, such as "issues facing pilots today", "skills needed to be a pilot", etc

As a pilot in training (based in Australia), I'm happy to put some work into this article. I would like some opinions on the above points before we go tearing this article appear and rebuilding it though. Whippen (talk) 11:33, 6 June 2008 (UTC)