Talk:Avianca Flight 52
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[edit] Language problem?
Although the crash was attributed to pilot error, it must be kept in mind that in Spanish, the word priority has the connotation of emergency in English. I feel that the article needs to mention this. However, I cannot (at this time) find any sources to cite in this manner. Hence, I have added the NPOV-section tag. --Aveek 08:08, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
- Did you learn this fact from the corresponding episode of the TV Show, "Mayday"? I'm watching it at this moment. They are right, you know. Maybe you can go to some website where they cite Mayday's resources. --RPharazon 19:14, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
As a fluent Spanish speaker, I can vouch for that word as its source. the first poster is correct.
Okay, maybe if you put it in as "Some people believe that problems arose due to language problems mostly because 'Priority' in Spanish has an equivalent meaning of 'Emergency' in English." --RPharazon 04:36, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
"Prioty" may mean "Emergency" in Spanish language but bear in mind this did happen in America where English is the national language.
(And the official language of ATC InnocuousFox 15:22, 21 April 2007 (UTC))
This is going to get long winded so I apologize for the length. Something about this crash really stirs up strong emotions in people. At first glance maybe it's hard not to sympathise with a foreign crew coming into New York and being left to hold until they were on fumes. Reality isn't that simple.
I recall reading in one of my pilot magazines years ago about a small plane south of Hawaii having problems. The nearest airport was at Johnston Atoll. I wish I could recall the exact specifics and know where I read this for a better citation. Basically the problem with landing there is it was then a United States Military Base and not normally open to civillian traffic. As I reacll the pilot was getting a little flustered dealing with the controller trying to explain that he needed to land there and what did he need to do to convince the controller of the urgency of the situation. The controller radios back, "You have to say the words." Lightbulb goes off in pilots brain and he declares an emergency. Those are the magic words that cut through all the red tape and the plane was immediately cleared to land.
As a native speaker of English with some knowledge of Spanish I can't say for certain whether Priority really means Emergency in Spanish or not. It seems to me Emergencia means Emergency in Spanish. From reading the NTSB report it is clear the Captain is aware of the urgency of the situation and tells the copilot working the radios to declare an Emergency. "Digale que estamos en emergencia . . . Digale que no tenemos combustible." (Tell him we are in an emergency . . . Tell him we have no fuel.) The Captain clearly said emergencia, not prioridad.
We know from the transcript the copilot advised they needed priority due to their fuel but never said emergency. This would tell the controller the plane should still have enough fuel to fly to Kennedy and hold 45 minutes but that they can no longer reach Boston and hold there. So the controller bumped them up ahead of other aircraft to put them into position for the approach and nothing more. If that sounds negligent or cold blooded then you won't pass a basic ground school class to become a pilot. It is not the controllers job to monitor every planes fuel, that's the flight crews job. The controller was basically told fuel is becoming a problem and acted appropriately by moving them up in the queue. If the controller had been told it was an emergency then he would have moved this plane up to the front of the line and probably arranged for either himself or another controller to guide the plane all the way in to prevent miscommunication on their emergency status. The copilot could have also requested a single controller approach to prevent misunderstandings.
Now maybe that's easy to say sitting comfortably at my desk on the ground. However running a plane out of gas is pretty much first, last and always the flight crews fault. This crew ran out because the Flight Engineer never spoke up and told the captain exactly how long they could hold at every hold they were given and still make an approach to Kennedy, fly to Boston and hold for 45 minutes. Only when the situation became critical did the copilot speak up to the controller and even then only asked for priority. Despite the Pilot realizing the gravity of the situation at the end in my mind he bears the greatest responsibility of all. While it is true he was having trouble hearing in his headset at the end in my mind he never should have let the plane leave the ground.
Reading the entire report he was given a flight plan to Kennedy with an alternate of Boston, weather forecast for enroute, destination and alternate airport. He should have noticed that Boston weather was forecast to be below the higher minimum conditions required for an alternate airport. Obviously the quality of their flight dispatching should be questioned that he was even given such a poorly prepared flight plan but responsibility for accepting it still lies with the Pilot in Command. As an example if a flight dispatcher handed me a flight plan from Gunnison Colorado to Aspen with a cruise altitude at 10,000 feet I think I'd ask them what tunnel they expected me to fly through. Accepting it, let alone being stupid enough to fly it would be entirely my fault when investigators arrived on scene.
In this case the flight dispatcher indicated the flight plan was prepared by their dispatching software. That it always listed Boston as the alternate for flights to New York regardless of weather. The report states the nearest airport to Kennedy with conditions forecast to be above alternate minimums was Syracuse. This was probably not suitable for a transcontinental international flight so it goes on to state that Buffalo was probably the nearest airport that would be appropriate to use as an alternate. We'll never know why the Captain accepted this flight plan.
I'm not sure if the plane would have been able to hold enough fuel for the trip to Kennedy, then Buffalo, then 45 minutes of holding and still been able to depart the higher altitude airport in Medellín. Did the Captain notice this problem with the flight plan and ignore it because it might have meant a tech stop for fuel in Miami? We'll never know, but we do know he never requested updated weather for New York at any time during the flight. They had a contract with Pan Am to provide enroute weather updates and could have reached them in Miami or further up the east coast and been warned the weather detiorated below their forecast info. Armed with this information the crew might have diverted into Dulles, BWI or Philadelphia. Just because Boston was the filed alternate did not mean they were obligated to only go there. I don't think I've ever once diverted to a filed alternate beyond my destination. The airport underneath me I have the information on and can see the conditions myself is usually a better diversion point then something over the horizon and unknown.
Sadly the FAA settled to avoid a lawsuit and that always makes people think they screwed up. I think it was a political decision caused by attorneys jumping on this weasel word "Priority". Fanning the flames of anti-american sentiment in Colombia, a country the United States needed to keep on friendly terms in the never ending war on drugs. This crew collectively caused the accident by adding link after link in the chain of events. The crew broke the regs, several of them, not ATC. Like lobsters in a pot of water slowly being heated up, they cooked instead of getting out of the situation. It's really sad, frustrating, makes you angry, but it's also the truth. Skywayman (talk) 14:17, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
