Talk:Avenger (Fate/hollow ataraxia)

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[edit] A very important reminder

Okay, this is the second time I’ve had to do this. Avenger doesn’t have official stats and Void Avesta does not have official rank. Whatever User:Yin lin came up with wasn't removed because of vandalism, it was removed because IT DOES NOT EXIST. --Ephyon 01:57, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Avenger is FSN Angra Mainyu or not?

Okay, I have a big question that could probably be answered easily. Is Avenger the one who tainted the Holy Grail, or is Avenger just another servant. It says that Avenger isn't the evil spirit of Angra Mainyu... but it's too much of a coincidence that he participated in the third Holy Grail war and that war is the war where "Angra Mainyu" tainted the holy grail... Are these two entities the same person or different? Mirioki 23:14, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

He is the one in the Grail, but he is not Angra Mainyu because that spirit has never appeared in the story. The real screw up happened while Avenger was alive: He was a common guy who got sacrificed by people who believed he was Angra Mainyu, which resulted in one helluva pissed off Heroic Spirit. He's basically a bitter resentful dark soul, but not truly evil deep inside. The problem is, he's the only one who knows he's a fake, history and everyone else thinks he is the real thing. During Heaven's Feel, if the ritual had succeeded, he might have become a spirit powerful enough to be compared with Angra Mainyu, but the true God of Darkness has never appeared in the games' universe. Ephyon 23:57, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Noble Phantasms

Yes, his knives are Noble Phantasms. Any weapon carried or used by a Servant counts as a Noble Phantasm, even if it does not unleash a giant blast a-la-Excalibur. If this were not the case, then Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon would not be a Noble Phantasm, and neither would any of the weapons that come out of it. While some Servants have weapons that do not have a name (and therefore are not Noble Phantasms, such as Rider's spikes/nails), those that are important enough to have a name are Noble Phantasms. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drium (talk • contribs)

That’s… nowhere near correct. NP’s are named known mysteries associated with the eirei, which is precisely what sets them apart from regular conceptual weapons, mystic codes and summons. Yes, it’s possible for the eirei to carry objects that aren’t NPs, such as Rider’s nail and chain, Berserker’s club, clothing, etc. If you’ve read the definition in actual source materials and the game itself, the basic prequisite for something to be an NP is to have a “true name” which invokes its real powers.
I repeat so it’s clear: Invocation of true name = Effect. Basically, just knowing that Arthur’s armor is called Wigar doesn’t make it an NP. Hell, the description of the knives goes out of the way to make clear that they aren't NPs. --Ephyon 01:46, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
That definitition is YOUR definition and in no way the one the Wikipedians holding the FSN archives up use. In the games..
Caster does not invoke Rule Breaker's name when she uses it.
Lancer does not invoke Gae Bolg's name when he hurls it (though he does when he stabs with it).
Archer does not bellow out the name of ANY of the Noble Phantasms he wields except Unlimited Blade Works and Rho Ais(?).
Saber does not shout out Invisible Air when she uses Barrier of the Wind King even as a mean of damage.
Gilgamesh yells the name of NONE of his Noble Phantasms except Gate of Babylon, which is in no way a weapon. He doesn't even yell Ea, but rather yells Enuma Elish, which is not Ea's true name but rather the name of the technique it unleashes.
True Assassin does not yell out the name of his curse, either.
Rider doesn't yell out Mystic Eye or Cybele when she uses her eyes, though I'll give you that she yells Breaker Gorgon and the name of her beast. She doesn't yell Blood Fort Andromeda though. Or even mention it. Shinji does all the explaining.
Berserker most certainly does not yell out God Hand everytime he is restored to life.
Therefore, please leave the knives on Avenger's page unless you are willing to go out there and fix -every single Wiki article of every single FSN Servant- with your definition of what a Noble Phantasm is. Clearly you're the only one who considers them that way, and it's in no way the intended definition the series uses.

I don't care enough to get in an argument, but you're forgetting that THE KNIVES' DESCRIPTION EXPLICITLY STATES THAT THEY AREN'T NPs. What actually matters regarding NPs is the release of the power they possess, that's what "invoking the true name" means, not actually speaking, just activation of the NP's true power. Do whatever you want, it's not like this article is anywhere near immaculate anyway, but it's still wrong.

And Rider's Mystic Eyes aren't NPs either by the way. -- Ephyon 16:31, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


There's really no point in going further with this but the previous entry by whateverhisnamewas has no sources whatsoever to back it up. Even the name itself is wrong. Please don't put it back up. --60.43.49.29 09:16, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stats and Skills

These look about right, but someone should try and obtain a status-screen screenshot of either the books or the game itself to confirm Avenger's statistics. A description of what his skills do (Bloodlust, Hate, etc) would be appreciated, too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drium (talk • contribs)

There’s no status screen to screenshot, because there are no statuses in the first place, it’s all made up. --Ephyon 01:46, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image

There's a problem here. The only clear picture I could find is this one. Does anyone have anything better? Ephyon 11:29, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:AtaraxiaAvenger.jpg

Image:AtaraxiaAvenger.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 18:54, 13 February 2008 (UTC)