Talk:Avdy Andresson
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This article was nominated for deletion on May 17 2006. The result of the discussion was NO CONSENSUS. |
He became colonel only during 1970's, promoted by Tõnis Kint. In Estonian pre-WW II cavalry he was non-commissioned officer and in German cavalry, during WW II, captain.
Dear ExRat,
I must use my poor English to be understandable another users of English Wikipedia.
Your article is lavish and cntaining factual inaccuracies caused by casual and lacking sources.
Exact date, when A. A. died, is August 27, 1990.
Born and raised in Estonia, which was then part of the Russian Empire, Andresson served in the Czar's Cavalry as a colonel during World War I. In 1918, during the Estonian Liberation War against Russia from 1918 until the 1920 signing of the Treaty of Tartu in which Russia relinquished all claims of sovereignty over Estonia and the nation won its independence, Andresson served as a colonel in the newly formed Estonian Cavalry and Tanks division of the Estonian Army.
This passage is not correct. Do you really think, that this is possible to be colonel from ones birth? Actually A. A. served in Russian cavalry during WW I as an voluntary, 1917–1918 in Estonian cavalry regiment, in 1918 (during German occupation) a member of underground Defence League and during Estonian Liberation War in the 2. Cavalry Regiment. Why you have cited here Treaty of Tartu? This belongs nott o biographiy of A. A., because he was certainly not a signatory of this treaty.
- Maybe this is my bad English, but I did not infer that he was a signatory at the Treaty of Tartu. It was meant for historical context of what was happening militarily in Estonia at the time. And, of course I certainly didn't mean to infer that he was colonel since birth - I may not be the smartest person in the world, but am not that stupid. ExRat 21:00, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
1920–1936 he served as non-commissioned officer in Cavalry Regiment, Tartu, (there has never been any Cavalry and Tanks division in Estonian army!) and 1936–1940 in Ministry of War’s Horse Breeding Station, Vorbuse.
- This is indeed my big mistake. I thought that at the time there was a Calvary division. ExRat 21:00, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
A. A. married firstly, in 1936, Gerda Schwartz. I do not know nothing more about the first Mrs. Andresson.
During the Soviet invasion and occupation of Estonia in 1940, during World War II, Andresson served in the German Cavalry and Tanks division from 1940 until 1945 in an effort to expel the Soviets from Estonia. Soviets were expelled from Estonia already during 1941. This was certainly not the main aim of Soviet-German war.
- Nagu peabki. Of course this was not the main aim of the WW II! But, unless conscripted, as you know - most Estonians who joined the German army did so in an effort to oust the Soviets. ExRat 21:00, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
After Soviet occupation of Estonia he escaped to Germany, in 1941 (during Nachumsiedlung, before outbreak of Soviet-German war). During WW II he served in various German units, 1944 finished German main cavalry school in München and was promoted cavalry officer (lieutenant). February 15, 1945 he was promoted captain and appointed commander of a cavalry regiment.
At the end of the WW II he was prisoned in Czech, but escaped to Germany at the end of 1945. In 1951 he escaped to Canada and in 1954 to USA.
He was promoted from captain to colonel on May 23, 1974 (in effect since February 24, 1974) – just then, but no way from his birth nor during WW I! The appointment order is following, in original Estonian:
1. Eesti vabadusvõitlustes ülesnäidatud teenete ja Eesti sõjaväelaste, ning Kaitseliidu organiseerimise alal energiliselt tegevana on Ratsa ja kerge soomusväe kapten AVDY ANDRESSON ligi 30 aasta jooksul omal alal edukalt ja hoolega töötanud – selle töö tunnustuseks nimetan kapten Avdy Andresson'i koloneliks, teenistusvanusega 24. veebruar 1974.
This appointment was treated as invalid and illegal by many Estonian officers in exile on formal and political causes, included, because he was not an Estonian officer before 1940, but only a NCO, also because of overriding the ranks of major and lieutenant colonel.
There is, by mine, not published documentary proof about his post as Commander in Chief in exile.
His activities as Minister of War in exile are quite obscure for me. A. A. was evidently one of the most controversial members of Estonian government in exile and made a number of enemies. During 1970s members of the government in exile demanded his expel from government posts.
Statement made by mine, that A. A. was in 1990 acting head of government in exile, is an unfounded conjecture based on inaccuracy of published sources earlier accessible for me. I did not knew, that the new Acting Prime Minister, Enno Penno, was appointed already on March 1, 1990, apart of other members of his government.
Please check the sources. Because you can read Estonian, I may recommend you a book titled Tõotan ustavaks jääda… Eesti Vabariigi valitsus 1940–1992 (Tartu 2004). Also you can see Estonian exile newspapers (including Andresson’s own Virgats) of 1970s and his papers in Estonian State Archives in Tallinn.
- Erki, suur tänu. I greatly appreciate your help. Much of the information I gathered about Avdy Andresson was found at a site that I am currently unable to find - parema puudumisel. Kahjuks. I am quite pleased that you are able to add to the article. However, there are a few things that I think possibly you misunderstood - I didn't infer that Andresson was a signatory at the Treaty of Tartu. This was a simply for historical reference and context. Nor did I infer that he was colonel since birth (maybe my bad English.) I have made some notations after some of you statements to clarify my meaning. Although, I do see that I was wrong with some information. Please feel free to make the correct changes to the article! I thank you once again! Terviseks! ExRat 21:00, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
