Talk:Automatic Identification System

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[edit] Additional Links

Hi! I'd like to suggest a link for this article: U.S Cost Guard page about A.I.S: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/enav/ais/default.htm Maybe a link to the Wikipedia-article about ACARS? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACARS This is my first posting on Wikipeida.. I know I can edit the article itself... but to make sure I don't step on anybodys toes.. :-)

I understand and agree with the US Coastguard link - but why the ACARS link?
Added Coast Guard link. No toes stepped on! -- Muffuletta 19:24, 3 December 2005 (UTC)


Hi - Can I suggest an additional external link for live AIS data & maps from the port of Southampton in the UK: http://www.ais-live.co.uk/ 217.40.148.115 10:24, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Sure thing; seems to meet the requirements (free and helpful). Thank you for discussing it here and for finding a good resource! - Davandron | Talk 02:54, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Minor Edits

I added a few minor upgrades to the article, and also added a picture of an operations specialist managing vessel traffic using AIS and RADAR. Thought it might be helpful. April 13, 2006

[edit] SOLAS Link?

The "SOLAS" link, in the first section, points to something completely random, although still called SOLAS...

Thanks to user 81.99.38.3, who fixed this on November 19, 2006.

[edit] Links to Commercial / Subscription sites

I've removed the links to non-free AIS data websites and to providers of transponders. Please see the Links to avoid section of the style guide for more on why these links are discouraged. Davandron | Talk 23:38, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Update: Recently, 82.152.60.82 has repeatedly added a link to www.aislive.com, a site which is an industrial service site and charges a subscription fee and displays paid-advertisements as well. I have reverted these additions, and asked the user to discuss here. They have not stopped, and have not discussed. I am asking others in the group to look at this site and determine if it is appropriate, given policy on external links. - Davandron | Talk 14:32, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

From what I understand, there is also a free, but limited page on the AIS-live website. The limitation seems to be that you don't get real time information, but instead 1/2 hour delayed info. You do have to register though (for free). Once done, you can access harbors and coastal waters around the world. I haven't tried it, it's just what I'm being told. Please note that I am not the original contributor of the link (at least not this time, but I added the same link a long time ago). In fact I don't care whether it is placed or not, it's just that I saw this discussion about it, and this is my two cents. Regards, Lexw 11:07, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Links to commercial hardware receivers, is it ok?

Removed the following as potential link spam

*[http://www.seacas.com/oscomm/internal.php AIS Receiver] from SeaCAS.com

Added by 69.33.97.3 and edited shortly after by 69.33.97.27. The link in question appears to be a hardware manufacturing with links on how to purchase their equipment.

How does the group feel about this? - Davandron | Talk 02:52, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AIS Range Question

I'd first like to say that I found the entry on AIS very informative and much better than just reading the manual. I'm a merchant mariner and I've noticed that we can pick up other vessels' AIS range from quite a long distance away (50+ Nautical Miles in some cases). On the wikipedia it says that it uses digital VHF which may be better than normal VHF but says that nominal range is around 20 miles. Does AIS "piggyback" with other vessels? In other words, when my AIS signal hits another ship does it carry the information that that other ship already has back to mine thereby making the range greater? Also, I notice that when ships are picked up farther away that the AIS picture only shows the MMSI number instead of the ship's name on our ECDIS. Why is this? If we get the signal why wouldn't all of the AIS information get to us? Aargh57 01:01, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I can offer some potential answers to these questions:
  • 50 miles?: If both the receive and transmit antenna are a significant distance above the water's surface, you'll get a longer line of sight. I don't have first hand experience, but 50 miles doesn't sound impossible.
  • Piggyback: Nope, there is no retransmission of position data. I think there is a provision for safety-of-life messages (panpan/mayday) to be rebroadcast but I can't remember for sure.
  • Only MMSI?: This sounds like your AIS display truncating info for ships such a long distance away. You are correct that if you receive any data it should also have all the AIS information. (At least how I understand the specification).
Hope this helps - Davandron | Talk 15:05, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Class B AIS

I'd like to add a section on Class B 'CS' AIS. Is it appropriate to add that as a subsection of the article or should a new article be created for this? I would include: i) Purpose of Class B 'CS' AIS, standards etc. ii) Differences between Class A and Class B Marinate 10:32, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to the Wikipedia, Marinate!
That sounds like a great addition. I'd say add it here; this article can cover both Class A and Class B. Please make sure you fully source / cite your additions. Last time I looked for Class B info there wasn't much available since Class B hadn't been finalized or approved. Other than that, go ahead and be bold! - Davandron | Talk 15:03, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
(P.S. If you can, please use the "+" button to add discussion topics. This places them at the bottom and gives the page a consistent history. I once argued this practice, but have learned it really is for the best.)
Class B has been finalized and a few systems are approved and sold in europe already. None has received FFC approval for use in the US though. Info on Class B is certainly warrented in the article. In addition, I see no mention in the article of a distinctions between full AIS transponders which send and also receiver, and receive only AIS, which could also use a mention. This article is extreamly well written and researched, so I dont feel comfortable editing it, but I would gladly collaborate with an existing editor on it. Unfortunately adding information on class B and receive only AIS does not just seem as simple as adding a section, it will take a lot of tweaking through out the article, thus my hesitancy. Russeasby 00:58, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
We can work on it together if you'd prefer, but don't be afraid to try things out. I often create a sandbox copy in my userpages, starting with the original page and then editing and such. That way I can see how the whole article looks without messing up the main section while its still in progress. I've gone ahead and done that with this User:Davandron/AIS and anyone here would be welcome to contribute. - Davandron | Talk 03:53, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
I made a start on adding Class B in a copy of the article at my user page - feel free to edit and add to this. It might be a slow job I'm afraid! Marinate 15:54, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Great! I deleted my old user page since this one continued to evolve. I'll see how I can help. - Davandron | Talk 23:01, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Which standards body? Where is the standard?

As far as I can see, this document is lacking pointers to the "owner" of the AIS protocol and/or its standards number. Where can I find the standard itself if I want to look up the real details? Is this an IMO standard? --Andre Blum 12:27, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I think its an ITU-R standard, since it deals with radio transmissions. Here is what the US coast guard website says:
  • ITU-R Recommendation M.1371-1, Technical Characteristics for a Universal Shipborne Automatic Identification System Using Time Division Multiple Access in the Maritime Mobile Band
  • IMO Resolution MSC.74(69), Annex 3, Recommendation on Performance Standards for an Universal Shipborne Automatic Identification Systems (AIS)
  • IEC 61993-2 Ed.1, Maritime navigation and radiocommunication requirements - Automatic identification systems (AIS) - Part 2: Class A shipborne equipment of the universal automatic identification system (AIS) - Operational and performance requirements, methods of test and required test results
Here is the draft version for purchase.- Davandron | Talk 19:05, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Base Stations and other administrative requirments for AIS

I noticed that there is no discussion of AIS Base Stations. Also perhaps some information regarding the approval requirements for these devices would probably be helpful. For the US that means a US Coast Guard Approval and an FCC license. For other countries it means a Type Approval from their Administration. For example the EU approves equipment under the Marine Equipment Directive (MARED). There is also an agreement between the US/EU to allow for cross approvals between the two organizations. I.e. the US Coast Guard can issue an EU wheelmark for certain items and the EU may issue a US Coast Guard approval number for the same items. I don't know that that necessarily belongs in this article (and I haven't looked to see if it is addressed somewhere else). But, I think it might be useful information to include, somewhere. Craig Burch 15:41, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Related articles on VMS and MCS

Hello to all the fisherfolk! I normally post on computer networks and medicine, with an assortment of other things, but, having moved to Chatham MA (for people worldwide, a fishing port on Cape Cod on the US NE Atlantic coast), I've been learning more than I ever thought I'd know about commercial fishing and shellfishing. I do know a fair bit about naval warfare, but it's one thing to know how to defend a carrier task force from a submarine, and another thing to know that when scallop dredging, the pointy end of the boat usually goes forward.

Two new articles of mine, still needing categories, are on Vessel monitoring system (VMS) and the more policy level of Monitoring control and surveillance. In both areas, systems may very well share at least antennas, and possibly computing platforms with AIS and VTS. Feedback and crossreferences are welcome. Howard C. Berkowitz 16:50, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested link

User Maritecc added the following link to AIS.

[http://www.maritec.co.za/index.php?pr=AIS_Overview Maritec articles and information about AIS]

It appears to be a conflict of interest and potential linkspam. Guidelines suggest that, when such conflict exists, the addition of links should be at other users discretion. I've moved it here for discussion / consideration. - Davandron | Talk 16:08, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

The below also appears to be linkspam & suggest it's removed from the references section? --Marinate (talk) 16:00, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

*'''Bernard Legros inventor of AIS (France)''' (embarked, located electronics system) patent and copyright FR 2 586 845, European EP 0235171, ES 2 001 887, CA 1270549, WO 87/01491 official deposit 27/08/1985 [http://www.consultant-legros.fr Automatic identification system AIS©Bernard Legros 1985] Consultant, engineering project, world application

Yep, I've been undo'ing this change each time the individual restores it; seems like it must be at ten times by now. - Davandron | Talk 01:47, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Question about Links

Having spent much of the day trying to find documentation of a number of proprietary marine network protocols, I was a little surprised to find a couple of links here dealing with hobbyist decodes. Seriously, am I missing something? Is there something missing in the official standards that needs to be decoded? Howard C. Berkowitz 21:50, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Not sure what your question / thought is, but I'll reply for what I think you are asking about. Hobby decoding is for decoding (and encoding) the information stream outside of a commercial processor, such as with a self-assembled radio modem. It's not a matter of the standards, but of the commercial aspect. - Davandron | Talk 14:22, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! So using the term this way is not so much finding out what the message formats are, which are in the standards, but in developing the parsers and message handlers used in hobby-developed equipment? The information is available, but not code for it? To draw an amateur radio analogy, you have to be sure that your frequency-determining components are correct, and can't just leave it to the manufacturer? Howard C. Berkowitz 14:49, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed from See Also

I removed this content from the See Also section as it doesn't link to the wikipedia. That said, it probably could be worked into the article, where appropriate. - Davandron | Talk 17:33, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Removed Content:

  • ITU-R M.131-2 Technical Characterisics for a Universal Shipborne Automatic Identification System using Time Division Multiple Access in the VHF Maritime Mobile Band. Version 3 is in the works.
  • ITU-R M.493-11 Digital Selective Calling System for use in the Maritime Mobile Service
  • NMEA 0183
  • IEC 60936-5 - Guidelines for the use and display of AIS information on Radar
  • IE 60945 Maritime Navigation and Radio-communication Equipment and Systems - General Requirements - Methods of Testing and Required Test Results
  • IEC 62320 - Maritime navigation and radiocommunication equipment and systems -

Automatic Identification Systems - Part 1: AIS Base Stations - Minimum operational and performance requirements - methods of test and required test results

  • IALA Navguide Dec 2001 - Chapter 4 - Universal Automatic Identification System (AIS)
  • IALA Guideline No. 1028 - The Automatic Identification (AIS) Vol. 1, Part I, Operational Issues
  • IALA Guidelines on the Universal Automatic Identification System (AIS), Vol. 1, Part II, Technical Issues
  • IMO SN/Circ.236 - Guidance on the Application of AIS Binary Messages - Defines the 7 international test binary messages
  • The Maritime Domain Awareness Data Sharing Community of Interest (MDA DS COI) Pilot, Data Vocabulary and Schemas, Version 1.0, 16-June-2006
  • United States Voluntary Observing Ship Project ([VOS])
If we add a "Further reading" section, we could copy these references there.
Sv1xv (talk) 08:01, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bernard Legros inventor of AIS (France)

There are repeated insertions of this reference to the article. Does anybody have any reference for this claim? (That Bernard Legros invented of AIS.) That is, except for the guys own homepage. There is the reference to the patent, but I can not find any english version of it (except the abstract, which is non-informative). Mossig (talk) 17:41, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

The part about Bernard Legros has been repeatadly added to the article, latest by 82.120.101.46 .The claim in the additions, cited below, does not seem to be independently verifiable, and the whle things seems to be self-promotion. Does anybody know of any source that says that this BL is the inventor of AIS? What actions to take? Mossig (talk) 18:34, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Part in question:
Bernard Legros inventor of AIS (France) (embarked, located electronics system) patent and copyright FR 2 586 845, EP 0235171, ES 2 001 887, CA 1270549, WO 87/01491
official deposit 27/08/1985, world application Automatic identification system AIS©Bernard Legros 1985 Consultant engineering project
Mossig: I, too, have repeatedly undone these edits and issued warnings to the various IP addresses that have performed this edit, but to no avail. A few weeks ago I requested the page be edit-protected from anonymous users and it was for seven days. Since the problems continue, we may need to request the protection again, this time for a longer period. - Davandron | Talk 03:50, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Conflict of interest, Siitech link

The following link was added by User:Siitech

* [http://www.siitech.com/sol_test.htm Free version of AIS Server for testing your AIS equipment and monitoring vessels in your area]

It is the one and only edit by this user and the link appears to be a conflict of interest and is removed to this page until another person deems it appropriate to be added to the article. - Davandron | Talk 15:46, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Questionable link?

The following link was added by 193.69.71.70

  • http://www.km.kongsberg.com/ks/web/nokbg0240.nsf/AllWeb/557FADD4A733E1BFC1256F030033759B?OpenDocument AIS physical shore stations components

This link is to a company page describing base station products. It doesn't appear to add anything to the article; it looks a lot like a sales link to me. I'm going to remove it, but ask that the original contributor help us understand how this link adds to the article (so it can be restored). - Davandron | Talk 04:32, 30 April 2008 (UTC)