Talk:Auto racing

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Contents 1 From the article: 2 Petrol fueled ? 3 Single-seater racing 4 Autosport magazine 5 Sports Car 6 Link suggestions 7 The first American automobile race 8 Motorsport Wiki 9 Anglo-centric? 10 Please add an article on auto racing rules 11 New pages for driver and car 12 error? 13 Why motorsport redirects to Auto racing? 13.1 Open road [citation needed] 14 Requested move 15 Requested Move 2 16 Requested Move 3 17 Drag Racing Objective 18 RENAME - "Motorsport" - or create "Motorsport" category

[edit] From the article:

Illegal street racing is not drag racing.

This sentence seems to be wrong and ill-placed on many levels. First, street racing in general can take many forms of auto racing (of which drag racing is the most popular). This is like saying "drinking is illegal in some countries" as opposed to "drinking alcohol is illegal in some countries".

Second, drag racing, as defined in the article itself, constitutes covering a straight distance of a given length in the shortest amount of time, the distance traditionally being the quarter mile. No part of the term 'illegal street racing' is in opposition of that definition. I have removed this sentence from the article, please reply here if you disagree. GodGell 02:55, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd disagree. "Street racing", by definition, differs from drag racing, which is sanctioned & run on controlled tracks. Trekphiler 03:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Should the term "motorsport" be used as a redirection to auto-racing? I mean, when I think of motorsports, I think of auto-racing, motorcycle racing, motorboat racing, and air racing. Should motorsport (and the plural form) be used as a disambiguation for for different types of motorsport and not just auto-racing? - Captain Spyro, 2005

Note: I added a mention to motorboat racing and air racing at the top of the page. - Captain Spyro, 2005

Yopu're absolutely right! Auto racing is only a fraction of the whole spectrum of motorsports and even then is IMO an unusual term worldwide. German and Spanish Wikis among other too have auto racing articles, but they also have motorsport articles in general. There should be seperate "motorsport" article with a link to the sub-species. The Rre-direct is just wrong 213.243.182.3 21:42, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I removed the term "psuedo-sport" (sic) from the introduction.--Ciroa 22:51, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

---

What is a rally raid? Is it the same as off-road racing? --rmhermen

What you call off-road racing is not off-road racing. Off-road is rallycross and autocross. Baja races and the Paris-Dakar Rally are called Cross-Country Rallies, which isn't the same as rallying either. --Pc13 08:27, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I don't want to start a US vs other languages war but I never hear any of those terms in common usage. Where I live it is almost always "motorsport" and of course includes all forms of motorcycle racing. --dramatic

[edit] Petrol fueled ?

"The beginning

"Auto racing began almost immediately after the construction of the first successful gas-fueled autos."

Is that meant to indicate gas as in gasoline/petrol, or some form of gas? Gas as in gasoline is mainly US usage. Moriori 03:13, 1 Nov 2003 (UTC)

In early racing they were also steam powered automobile and the first car to break the 100 km/h bareer was electic powered thus I tweak the beginning. Ericd 22:24, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Why was petrol fueled restablished ? IMO this hide the fact that there was a serious competition between petrol, steam and electric engines in the beginning. Ericd 07:07, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I agree with eliminating distinction regarding the vehicle's power source, especially as a couple of the cars racing at Le Mans this year were powered by fuels other than the typical "petrol" (diesel and bio-diesel).

Going on the old adage, "the race began the moment after they built the second one," I'd say we should remove any indication of the power source, vis "Auto racing began almost immediately after the construction of the first automobile." Hopefully fill out some of the early benzine/steam/diesel/electric races going on. It's all about four wheels, right?

I'd like to fill out the "history" section a bit. Any suggestions as to sources?

--User:Atombaby 00:19 13 Nov 2004

[edit] Single-seater racing

Should this section be called single-seater racing or open wheel racing? A google test shows that "open wheel racing" is ten times as prevalent as "single-seater racing". Personally, I would always call it "open wheel racing". Comments? --Timc 15:16, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The usage of "open-wheel racing" exists only in North America. In Europe it's always called "single-seater racing" or a translation thereof. --Pc13 08:27, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

What about "formula"? AFAIK, these types are the only racing cars that are governed by a "forumla" (i.e. displacement, weight, etc) and carry the "formula" moniker, similar to sailing formulas.

--User:Atombaby 00:10, 13 Nov 2004

No, that won't do - not so long ago intenational rallying had a Formula 2 championship. Here in Britain, "single-seater" is by far the most common term. Loganberry 05:01, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

No, because that implies "spec" racing, which covers more than that. I'd suggest heading it "single-seater" & open the section with a double def, "single" & "open-whl". Trekphiler 03:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Autosport magazine

I note that autosport redirects here. I would say that to British motorsport fans, and probably to European enthusiasts in general, the word Autosport overwhelmingly means the weekly motorsport-related magazine of that title rather than the sport itself, and since there is an article for F1 Racing magazine, I'd say there should be one for the much more widely read Autosport. Possibly it could go Autosport (magazine), with a disambiguation page at autosport, or at least a note about this other usage of the word? There's also a Motor Sport magazine in the UK, but this is less important. Autosport, however, has considerable influence, and surely deserves an article. Loganberry 23:00, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

My opinion is that when an article for the magazine is created it should be at Autosport with a disambig note to the auto racing article. SamH 10:22, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Sports Car

Didn't see a mention of the TransAM series. It's fallen to the wayside of late, but for many years (AFAIK) it basically was road-racing in the States. I was thinking about adding it, but couldn't decide where it'd be appropriate. It's in between touring car (being run on road-courses) and stock-car (because the cars have only the shell of a production vehicle, stickers for headlamps, etc). -- User:Atombaby 5 November 2004

Transam was the US version of touring car. And as long as remember the regulation were similar to European Group 2 : the car were seriously tuned but had more than the shell in common with a production vehicle Ericd 22:24, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Good point. I was uncertain of the regulations regarding Transam, just looked at the format (basically a tubular race-designed frame with a shell). Curious how both transam and stock car have developed similarly- from tuned production vehicles through to vehicles with only the engine and logo similar to the original. Stock cars from the late 70's and early 80's looked a lot more like what you could buy, versus the modern era, with only the engine and logo that harken to the road-going car.

Anyway, thinking that road-racing is probably more appropriate. Unless there's any objections...

-- User:Atombaby 7 November 2004

Shouldn't Trans-Am be mentioned in the Sports Car section instead of the Touring car category, since that series involves (or represents, however you wish to say it) 2-door sports cars like the Corvette, Jaguar, and Mustang over 4-door sedans? - User:Captain Spyro - Feb, 2005

Maybe, but back in the day. Those family cars were NOT considered sports cars except by kids who drove there parents cars. Pony cars were really a seperate breed. Nobody put them in with MGB's and Triumphs. The racing versions did not have a back seat but the streetcar versions did. It’s not 4 door but more than two passenger that made a difference. Corvettes, Cobras, Jaguar sports cars were not 4 passenger cars. GT

Agree. Trans Ams aren't what I'd consider touring cars; the big Benzs now are. Trekphiler 03:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Link suggestions

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[edit] The first American automobile race

Some of the facts are a little mixed up as it is now written. A better writer than me will need to fix it. There was an exhibition race on November 2, 1896, from Jackson Park in Chicago to Waukegan and back (about 90 miles) but there were only two cars--the Duryea car and a German-built Benz. The Duryea crashed near Evanston and left only the Benz to finish. The actual race was on November 28 and scheduled for the same length but because of heavy snow was shortened from Jackson Park to Evanston and back (about 50 miles). Six cars started the race, two electric, three gasoline powered Benzs, and the gasoline powered Duryea. Only one of the German cars finished the race, and neither of the electrics. Duryea won the race, an hour and a half or so ahead of the remaining Benz. Of course all of this ignores the Great Steam Car Race of 1878.12.74.168.251 04:43, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Motorsport Wiki

If anyone is interested, there is a dedicated [Motorsport Wiki] currently under development. Any contributions from wikipedians is very much apreciated! MonkeyMumford 20:19, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anglo-centric?

Parts of this article have a UK-centric feel, which is somewhat ironic considering the American-English title. Note the following sentences:

• "Single-seater (open-wheel) racing is perhaps the most well-known form of motorsport." (That's not the case in the U.S., where NASCAR is far and away the best-known form of auto racing.)

• "The best-known variety of single-seater racing is the Formula One World Championship." (Probably true worldwide, but in the U.S., it would be IRL or Champcars. Maybe it should say "Outside of the U.S.")

• "Stock car racing is the American variant of touring car racing." (Or is touring car racing the British variant of stock car racing?)

Should the article be adjusted to reflect a more-global view? -- Mwalcoff 04:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

This article as a whole sucks, as it is a merry muddled jumbled mess of mish-moshed sections which have little to no cohesion. But, this article is definitely not UK-centric, it is instead reflective of worldwide perspectives on motorsports. The best-known variety of motorsports worldwide is single-seaters, and the best-known variety of single-seater racing worldwide is Formula 1. NASCAR and IRL/Champ Cars, while big in the US, are decidedly small-time on the rest-of-the-world stage. FCYTravis 05:08, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

True, but I'm inclined to agree touring car is a variant of NASCAR, which dates to 1949, & not the reverse. Trekphiler 03:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

i don't think many people would agree touring car racing is a variant of NASCAR (i would consider both to be too fundamentally different to be considered a variant of the other), even if it were a desendant, which i am not aware of. I think Mwalcoff's very suggestion is terribly US-centric, there always seems a need to point out any difference where the US position is different to that of the rest of the world, but not from any other country.

i wouldn't be so sure of the 'correctness' of the statement brought into question however; is F1 coverage/following (which, surely represents 90%+ of single-seater racing following, atleast in EU), greater than the combined following of Rally racing + touring car + NASCAR, and the various other lesser two+ seater racing forms.. ~ Bungalowbill —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 06:20, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please add an article on auto racing rules

Dear Sir/Madam:

  I'd like to understand auto racing rules (about which I know nothing at present). You seem to have no article on the subject, and the one about FIA lists no rules.

  So please add an article explaining the rules of this sport.

  Thank you very much!

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.41.31.53 (talk) 20:42, 29 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] New pages for driver and car

There should be two articles for race car driver and race car. The racing driver article should include descriptions of what does one and how they have evolved along the history, and the race car needs all the car types and the history of their evolution. What do you say? -- NaBUru38 19:01, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] error?

Under the drag race section the following is included, "Average street cars cover the ¼ mile (400 m) anywhere from 15 to 20 seconds..." I am not an expert at all but that seems like a real long time. Just checking. Rugz 16:25, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

It's not. That's about typical. And recall, cars that can't run 13s don't even require helmets under NHRA rules. Trekphiler 03:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why motorsport redirects to Auto racing?

Please see more on my old question: Talk:Motorsport#Why motorsport redirects to Auto racing? SharShar 21:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Open road ^{[citation needed]}

I added the tag: the Monte Carlo Rally is still run, & on open highways AFAIK. (Unless the marshals close them for the duration...but I don't think so. Trekphiler 03:19, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

While stage rallies such as the Monte Carlo Rally still use public roads, the roads are always closed to the public during the timed speed sections of such events. There are no sanctioned and legitimate speed contests conducted on open public highways, because of the clear and present safety issues posed to competitors and non-competitors alike. It would not do to come flying around a corner at 150 mph only to encounter a local motorist's family sedan traveling at 45 mph - the results would be catastrophic for both vehicles.

There are time-speed-distance rally events conducted on open public highways, but these rallies are invariably judged on the driver's ability to precisely navigate routes between checkpoints within fixed time limits, rather than outright speed. TSD rallies must be timed within legal speed limits. FCYTravis 03:36, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

[edit] Requested Move 2

[edit] Requested Move 3

[edit] Drag Racing Objective

I'm not highly knowlegable about drag racing, but I think this opening statement is misleading.

In drag racing, the objective is to complete a certain distance — traditionally ¼ mile (400 m), though 1/8 mile {200m} has become popular since the 1990s — in the shortest possible time.

As I understand it, the objective of drag racing is to beat the other car to the finish the line. Depending on reaction time, in a professional class, the winning car could have a longer ET than the losing car. Or, in the case of sportsman racing, the winning car could take longer to complete the distance. I think it would be more clear to say this:

In drag racing, the objective is to complete a given straight-line distance, from a standing start, ahead of a vehicle in a parallel lane. This distance is traditionally ¼ mile (400 m), though 1/8 mile {200m} has become popular since the 1990s. The vehicles may or may not be given the signal to start at the same time, depending on the class of racing.

--Tedd 18:01, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RENAME - "Motorsport" - or create "Motorsport" category

This article should be renamed to Motorsport, as typing Motorsport actually re-directs here to Auto racing.

As others have stated, the term "motorsport" applies to any vehicle which is powered by an engine. This is well-established, and includes car racing in its' various forms, motorcycle racing, truck racing, powerboat racing, and could even include the relativly new sport of air racing (such as the Red Bull Air Race series).

Alternatively, leave this section for "four-wheel" racing, and create another page, or category, called Motorsport which covers all aspects of racing as mentioned above. -- Teutonic Tamer 11:30, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if I'd buy into your definitions as to the scope of either term. But I'd say leave this article as it is.

The Category:Motorsport already exists.

I don't have any big objection if you

1. Create a new Motorsport (disambiguation) page (you can click on the redlink to start it), and add a disambiguation link here along the lines of "Motorsport redirects here; for other uses, see Motorsport (disambiguation).
2. Replace the redirect at Motorsport with a disambiguation page so that anybody who links to that or types it in the "Go" box gets the disambiguation page instead of this article.
3. Write a more fleshed-out article there instead. Just open the redirect page and start typing to write either a disambiguation page or an article. You can use the "main article" templates and summarize existing articles for most of the various sports involved. Gene Nygaard (talk) 12:07, 13 December 2007 (UTC)