Talk:Auteur theory

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Contents 1 Fundamental problem 2 Link suggestions 3 Proposed merge 4 Alternate views 5 Genre theory 6 (Hollywood does not equal "studio system" per se) 7 Merge Auteur Theory 8 POV Problems, OR, and irrelevancies in "Criticism" 9 Yes, but what is it?

[edit] Fundamental problem

A fundamental problem with this page -references to irony, which are in fact, not ironic, just coincidental etc. Someone with knowledge of film and semantics could tidy

Just a nit-pick; despite what the introduction says here, "auteurism" is a method of critical study, while the Auteur Theory is indeed an actual theory, namely (as the article goes on to explain) the theory that the director is (or should be, depending on one's interpretation) a film's primary author.

Astruc's 1948 essay ought to be mentioned here. The idea of the camera stylo is a rather obvious precursor to the auter. Deleuze 20:08, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

I hope you don't mind such a complete rewrite; it just happens that I was reading on this subject recently.

Add anything that's missing, but please keep the first sentence, which is from your original--it is THE best brief statement of the auteur position that I've ever seen.

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I don't mind at all; I didn't write the original but merely moved it from Auteur Theory Film. I didn't know anything about Auteur theory one way or the other, as film theory tends to bore me. And I do think the article is much better as it is, apologies to the original author....

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I just did a major rewrite of this article and included the Astruc, plus Bazin and a section on post-war cinema. I have removed the following section (next paragraph) which I find too close to personal opinon. I am also hesitant about the final paragraph in the article (which I have left). Also, the comparison between Renoir and Delannoy in the first paragraph should be explained (why?) or removed. User:NYArtsnWords Aug 13, 2005

"The strength of this theory (and the logical penchant for directors to support it) has been blamed for the irrational lack of attention some early directors received during the heyday of film theory. Howard Hawks was argued to be a hack because he had too many movies across too many genres. Allan Dwan still has not received much critical recognition both because too few of his films are in circulation and he made too many without contemporary attention."

I think this article has been vandalized. What is 'Noirgger Theory'? I'm pretty sure this is racist nonsense. Can someone please confirm. Thanks. ..........Yes, this is vandalism, and I believe it was 76.169.224.40. Could someone please fix this article?

[edit] Link suggestions

An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Auteur_theory article, and they have been placed on this page for your convenience.
Tip: Some people find it helpful if these suggestions are shown on this talk page, rather than on another page. To do this, just add {{User:LinkBot/suggestions/Auteur_theory}} to this page. — LinkBot 10:32, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Whoever wrote this article has no idea what the auteur theory was. The state " Howard Hawks was argued to be a hack because he had too many movies across too many genres." However, anyone with the slightest information on the theory would know Hawks was ranked as high as Hitchcock by the young Cahiers critics. Andre Bazin, thier mentor, jokingly called the Cahiers critics "Hitchcocko-Hawksians." One source for info: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001328/bio. Please fix this immediatly.

[edit] Proposed merge

I'm not sure a merge of Auteur and Auteur theory is the best idea - Auteur serves a purpose right now, giving a working definition and a list of directors that work with Auteur theory well. -Seth Mahoney 19:26, Apr 3, 2005 (UTC)

I agree. --Smell? 07:12, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Alternate views

Any critics of the Auteur theory out there want to add their 2 cents to this article? I read somewhere that Peter Bogdanovich films are often used as an example to debunk the theory since his early movies were masterpeices, and then everything he did after sucked amazingly. If the theory was true, he would have continued to make classics.

I think that's an absurdly simplistic view of auteur theory. But one criticism is that films by an auteur can be treated with reverence even when they suck (such as Kubrick's Fear and Desire. The Singing Badger 16:31, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Genre theory

I justed posted the sentence below to the auteur theory page but removed because I see that there has been a lot of writing on this page and I do not want to mess up your work.

In recent years, the auteur theory has been contrasted with genre theory.

I do not want to contradict the auteur theory (it brought us some wonderful movies), but it bothers me that the auteur theory never brings up 'genre' directors like David Cronenberg or Radley Metzger or Roger Corman.

The auteur theory is another instance of the cult of personality of the great man theory which tends to exclude the excellent work of some directors of escapist fiction. Do you think a link to genre studies deserves a mention in the article? --Jahsonic 16:27, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

These are all good points and should definitely be in the article. Why not create a new section called 'Problems with Auteur Theory' and put into it everything you've said above? Then other people can add to it. The Singing Badger 16:37, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea, Singing Badger. The auteur theory has also had a hard time with "création collective" (cf the French theater director Ariane Mnouchkine) and collaborative styles of filmmaking that do not focus on one "author" -- styles of filmmaking that have been increasingly common in indepedent filmmaking since the 60s. Some of these issues should also be brought up in an article on the Hollywood studio system, and the question of whether a director or producer or screenwriter (or anyone) can translate their personal obsessions to the screen. NYArtsnWords 17:17, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

I have expanded my original comments and published them on User:Jahsonic#Notes_on_the_auteur_theory . As is, I believe the notes are too bold to feature on the main page, but feel free to use any part you would wish to include. --Jahsonic 11:01, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] (Hollywood does not equal "studio system" per se)

In the above paragraph I had linked studio system to hollywood Hollywood|studio system. After comments from NYArtsnWords, I wrote this on NYArtsnWords's talk page. It is, I believe, of relevance here.

Yes, you are right, I was tempted to link it out of frustration that there is no article on the studio system (which I am sure, is a European phenomenon as well), thanks for removing the link. I thought it would be rather harmless because I posted it on a talk page. I find it interesting that quite a number of pages link to the studio system entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/Studio_system , but that no one has written an article about it. The reason is perhaps that the studio system a number of negative connotations related to commercialism and Hollywood. There is however also a historical background, of which I do not know enough to write the entry. For the time being I have redirected studio system to Hollywood, because, if you check the "what links here page", it most commonly refers to Hollywood --Jahsonic 08:28, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Merge Auteur Theory

I believe that these two articles are discussing the same topic. Could someone who is knowledgable in the field please merge them? --M@rēino 04:01, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I did the merge (keeping a couple sentences) and redirect from Auteur Theory (created 2/12/06) to here.--NYArtsnWords 05:30, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV Problems, OR, and irrelevancies in "Criticism"

I just did a clean-up of the Criticism section. I removed the whole paragraph about "psychoanalytical film criticism" because it was overly detailed, abstruse, and seemingly irrelevant. For one thing, I don't see how an emphasis on the "unconscious" of the director as contributing to the meaning of a film actually contradicts the auteur theory! Clconway (talk) 15:26, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Yes, but what is it?

I'm sorry to sound totally ignorant, but I am on this subject, so there you go. After reading the article, I still didn't know what auteur theory really is. OK, in auteur theory, the director is the "author", at least in the case of directors who follow auteurism. (I think.) Based on this article, I couldn't say with confidence if a given director, say Ron Howard, is a follower of auteur theory. Likewise, I couldn't say if Roger Ebert is a critic who follows auteur theory. Some of the comments on the talk page were helpful. I think including contrasts to other theories, such as genre theory would be helpful. Also, a history of what preceded auteur theory would be helpful. Finally, why do we need auteur theory? I'm not asking about the article itself, but rather why did somebody think it was important to view movies this way? Lon of Oakdale (talk) 14:56, 2 May 2008 (UTC)