Talk:Australian Crawl

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Australian Crawl article.
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Good article Australian Crawl has been listed as one of the Arts good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
May 4, 2008 Good article nominee Listed
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To-do list for Australian Crawl: edit · history · watch · refresh

Here are some tasks you can do:


  • Articles to be prepared on band members: Bill McDonough & Paul Williams.
  • Articles to be prepared on Australian Crawl singles
  • Articles on albums: Australian Crawl & James Reyne: The Definitive Collection

Contents

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Australian Crawl.jpg

Image:Australian Crawl.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 04:08, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spiff Rouch, Spiff Roach or Spliff Roach?

I have seen all three of these in different sources. This article has previously used Spliff Roach and had recently gone with Spiff Roach. After checking on-line resources, I've decided to go with Spiff Rouch and supplied two refs (see article for these) for this change. Other sources supporting this choice include James Reyne's official website forum (might be non-NPOV so not cited) and a MySpace blog by Brecon Walsh (but is blacklisted as a possible spam site and so not cited either) who seems to be a school mate of some of the members of both Spiff Rouch and Australian Crawl.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:46, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Major editing

I have read this article and see that the 'To-do' list above calls for verifying and expanding. I believe it may be enhanced by greater referencing and beefing up of each sectn. I'm about to have a go at the article and it may take some time before any improvements (IMO) become fully apparent. My first effort is to be on the Lead sectn, the Formation sectn and partly into BoysLightUp sectn. Any constructive feedback will be appreciated.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:46, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I've have a go at supplying references, beefing up the article and improving its format (more can be done). It still requires a photo (or two) of the band (especially for the infobox). More discussion of Oz Crawl's musical style and particularly its impact on other Australian bands is needed.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 23:26, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Recent Australian Crawl and Simon Binks edits

Thank you for your recent edits at Australian Crawl and at Simon Binks as User:124.181.173.130, User:124.180.152.104 and User:Simonjbinks.

Your edits are highly informative and give additional background for the articles, however, Wikipedia requires articles to be written in a particular style. See Manual of Style for example. When the article is about oneself e.g. Simon Binks or one's business/personal interests e.g. Australian Crawl then your editing may not show a Neutral Point of View and must be seen to have Verifiability. In such cases an independent reference is needed and you should Cite your sources. To reduce the possibility of Conflict of interest in such cases it is advisable to have your edits subject to modification or collaboration with an existing editor. In the case of Australian music articles such editors can be found at Wikiproject Australian Music members.

Your recent edits may be challenged, changed by subsequent editors or reverted to previous edits unless they are written according to the guidelines indicated.

I have reverted the recent edit to Australian Crawl by User:124.181.173.130 (unidentified IP address, claims to be "SB" or Simon Binks). Same claim made by User:124.180.152.104 and User:Simonjbinks when editing Simon Binks. The statements at Australian Crawl appear to be a personal account of the situation but are not referenced and I believe they are not Neutral Point of View: the User may believe them to be true (as stated) but they have not been Verified by independent sources.

A similar note has been placed on User talk:Simonjbinks, Talk:Simon Binks and Talk:Australian Crawl.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:03, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Couple of thoughts re good article nomination

Notice this is up for GA. A quick read suggests a few things that definitely need work:

  • Continually using the nickname "The Crawl" in the body text isn't appropriate style. Use either the full band name or an appropriate synonym (the group, the band).
I've tried to tidy this up: I've left at least one the Crawl in a quote in the Lead but I think I've got most of the rest as advised.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:53, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
  • The lead has a bit too much information on some topics, and suffers from quite a lot of grammar and spelling errors.
I've had a first go at modifying the Lead, I saw some grammar errors there which I've tried to fix but I couldn't see any spelling errors: might need someone else to spot them...Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:34, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Throughout the article, there's s quite a few minor copy problems (capital letters, punctuation etc.) I can probably dive in and fix these if I get time.

Not saying that these in themselves are enough to qualify for GA, but I think they're issues that will be raised by any reviewer. I'm happy to dive in and do a copy edit when I get the chance.Gusworld (talk) 08:54, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, I've just had a go at the 1975-1979 section, and made quite a few changes. Apart from copy tidying, here's the substantive ones: Even though the writing of Beautiful People obviously predates other events discussed, it didn't make sense as the opening, so I've moved it. The description of Mt Eliza wasn't needed. David Reyne's post-Crawl career is better covered in his own entry.

My feeling is that the detailed description of the Countdown mini-doco belongs in an entry on the song, not the band. That kind of detailed publicity for a new group was unusual on Countdown (in my recollection), which might make it notable, but we'd need a source for that. Left it there for now though. (Note that I haven't checked whether any of the references supplied actually suppport the claims in the text.) Gusworld (talk) 10:14, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Moved / merged "Beautiful People" info into same section. May have to cut down the description: it's getting too wordy now.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:53, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GAN on hold

  • Ref 1 is missing a title...
I'm confused, I believe Ref 1 ie "McF" shows: title=Encyclopedia of Australian Rock and Pop. Hang-on, I see what you mean (d'oh), I removed the IntLnks and now you should go to the actual doc rather than the wikipage about the Encyclo.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:21, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, sorry I wasn't clear...it looks fine now. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 00:21, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
  • 2nd paragraph of lead; don't need to really list these sorts of things, just give a summary
I've had a go at summarising this: hope its better.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:21, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
  • "which all reached the top 25 but none broke into the Top Ten" - needs reword
Yeah, I think its better now.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:21, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
  • "Their best performed single" - performed --> performing
DoneShaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:21, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Some shorter paragraphs (throughout) could be merged so it flows better
I'll check these as I get to them... might have another look later to see if I've got enough.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:21, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
It's looking better. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 00:21, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
  • "who helped them gain a recording contract with EMI and produced their first single" - he produced it, or EMI did? Clarify...
He signed them up to EMI, produced their first single and first album and probably got Molly (also worked for EMI) to promote them on Countdown but can't find a source for latter claim so its not in article.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:21, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
  • "Australian Crawl made one of the most memorable debuts performing "Beautiful People" as Reyne had both arms encased in plaster" - needs rewording to emphasis what's memorable (the plaster, I presume?)
Yeah, the plaster: I had more on this in earlier edits but deleted much of it as its covered in more detail on "Beautiful People". Restructured the paragraph and put the entire phrase into italics to emphasise it.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:21, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Thought so - the italics work well here! dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 00:21, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Check past tense in 1980: The Boys Light Up section ("Tracks from this album include", etc.)
Tried to tidy these up.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:46, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Quote at the end of the section needs context...it's not introduced or anything, just thrown in
Good point, I've given a brief intro prior to the quote: its used to compare OzCrawl with contemporaries.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:46, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
  • "They were voted Countdown 1981 Most Popular Group and James Reyne was 1980 and 1981 Most Popular Male Performer" - needs commas, rewording, for flow
Done.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:54, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
  • "This album had a rougher, rock 'n' roll edge than its glossy pop rock predecessors" - change "this" to "the", and ensure this claim has a source
The McF ref relates to the whole sentence: should the first half of the sentence have its own McF ref?Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:54, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Not sure if you changed anything, but it looks fine now... dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 00:21, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Album titles in section headings need italics
Article had this earlier but some headings only used part of an album's title so they were de-italicised (if that's the word). Otherwise the headings of some sections became too long: should they all be written in full and hence italicised? I've italicised the headings with full album titles but left partials for the moment. Including: Sirocco Beach is left as is; would Sirocco and Sons of Beaches be better?
I'd suggest you just use the full title...it really wouldn't get that long, so it's probably OK. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 00:21, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
  • "Soon afterwards Bill McDonough left due to tensions within the band" - this starts the section...soon after what?

Restructured start of sentence, also added another ref for Bill leaving.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:54, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

  • "Australian Crawl regrouped with Mark Greig on guitar (ex-Runners) for a series of live performances in late 1984." - standalone paragraph...merge or expand?
Merged it with paragraph on Guy's death.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 07:54, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Put the main article links at the top of the Post 1986 - After the split section, or create further subsections for each person
Opted for all links at top of section: wanted to avoid too many sub-sections.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:10, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Also, work on short one sentence paragraphs in that sectoin
Merged these 'shorties' into nearby paragraphs: hope they scan well.
  • And wlink dates throughout per WP:DATE
Got some of these: don't know if all are up to scratch.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:10, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
I'd say so, I'm not seeing any at a glance (but if you do, just remember to fix them!). dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 00:21, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Leave me a note when done. Cheers, dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 10:19, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

This GAN has passed, and this is now a good article! If you found this review helpful, please consider helping out a fellow editor by reviewing another good article nomination. Help and advice on how to do so is available at Wikipedia:Reviewing good articles, and you can ask for the help of a GAN mentor, if you wish.

Cheers, dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 00:21, 4 May 2008 (UTC)