Talk:Australian Cattle Dog

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Has a good amount of useful info. The "breed" section should be divided up into the various sections that its info covers. A history section must be created. Dividing the appearance section into subsections would definitely importve readability. Needs more references and citations. --Pharaoh Hound (talk) 13:41, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
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 Australian Cattle Dog is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.
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Contents

[edit] Docking

Since 2004 it has been illegal to dock dog tails in Australia. It is also banned in Sweden, Norway, the Netherlands, Finland, Germany, Denmark, Cyprus, Greece, Luxembourg, Switzerland, and Austria. Cgoodwin 03:31, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Replacing photos

Replaced perfectly good photos removed during frenzy of editing. With the variety of coats & markings & activities, I don't think it hurts at all to have them all here. Took puppy out of main box because it doesn't show what the dog looks like very well, which other shots do much better. What on earth caused this sudden frenzy of editing this page, anyway? Elf | Talk 00:21, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

That was my doing. Appologies if you feel I was a bit to enthusiastic with my delete key. I still think that there are a few too many images (and oddly positioned ones at that) relative to the text in this article and I would advocate removing at least a couple. I will leave it to those more knowledgeable than myself, though. --DaveC 00:35, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Ah HA! So it was YOU! :-) I think that actually the article is probably too short and could have more info, which would spread out some of the photos nicely. They could probably be rearranged a little better here. Maybe I'll try. Elf | Talk 00:50, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

More to it than that, Elf. It turns out there's been a discussion of the page on our 1000-member email list, Australian Cattle Dog-L (ACD-L). Most did not understand the Wiki concept. But there are strong objections, well-founded I think, to the conformationally imperfect specimen at the top of the web page. In particular, the docked tail is troubling to many. OK to solicit a proper replacement? Jimhutchins 03:28, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Yet there are quite a few cattle dogs out there with docked tails and the markings are not uncommon. IMHO if someone wants a "conformationally perfect" representation in all photos, they can go to the AKC or FCI or whatever site. I would hope that this article is about real dogs, not just show specimens, despite the fact that we highlight links to the various breed standards. But I am showing my extreme anti-show-breeding bias. I am also not in favor of cropping or docking. So how about using the red speckle that we've already got up into the table? But I would definitely leave in the photo of the docked dog because I think it is representative of a small but significant number of ACDs today. Elf | Talk 17:45, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Jim, is it just the tail? or are there other significant differences between the photo and a show-type dog? If the later, it would be good to have a show dog for comparison (yes, I know, more photos, but they do give so much info). Moving the un-docked photo up sounds good to me - such a fine tail :) -- sannse (talk) 12:48, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Article Consistency

Hey, I've been trying to organize the dog breed articles into the same structure. Where do you think the section on dog activity should go? Health? Temperament? Should it be it's own cateogory?

More at Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds/General - it's own section looks right to me -- sannse (talk) 20:47, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks..!!

Thanks Ellen, building a better ACDWikiPage...WikiDon

[edit] ACD's in the Movies

I think this is a hoax: "*Dog in Benji's Return: Back Again, (1993)" cite the source or yank it. WikiDon 04:16, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

I'm going to yank it, since I couldn't find a reference anywhere when I looked earlier, but figured I'd give it a little chance. Elf | Talk 05:07, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Benji Movies

I found this article on the Internet ([1]) that says there was a 17-year gap in the Benji movies, from the creator of the series, Joe Camp. So from 2004 MINUS 17 = 1987:

Benji’s Return A big comeback to the big screen for a mischievous mutt, By Steve Dale Benji is back. The feature film “Benji Off the Leash!,” which hit theaters earlier this year, will be released on DVD and VHS on December 28. And in the true spirit of the season, the movie’s success is a miracle: Creator Joe Camp produced and distributed it independently, without Hollywood’s help—a feat almost unheard of.

However, Camp, who is Benji’s original producer and creator, is barking up against an even bigger challenge. He explains that three studios expressed serious interest in producing a new Benji film. The problem is that industry bigwigs wouldn’t do the deal unless they could have complete control. The studios also made it clear they’d give the kids who watched Benji what they want, or at least what Hollywood perceives kids want. “That would mean poop jokes, four-letter words, and excessive violence,” says Camp. “I’m sorry, but I wasn’t about to compromise what Benji stands for.”

When it comes to movie stars with paws, only Lassie may be better known than Benji. Camp literally gets tears in his eyes as he tells a story about one little boy in France who lit up as he met Benji in person, then got a big wet kiss from the canine star. Of course, Camp has hundreds of stories just like that one. Well, not quite like that one. He says, “That little boy was me and how I was moved by Disney’s ‘Song of the South.’ I knew that when I grew up, I wanted to make movies like that—movies people remember—movies that touch people.”

The dog who actually inspired the Benji movies was Camp’s own Yorkshire terrier, Sir Benjamin of Courtney. Watching his dog’s interesting facial expressions one day, Camp had an epiphany: “The thing about Lassie is that while the audience liked Lassie, their heart was with Timmy. Those stories were told from the point of view of people. I realized right then and there that dogs have a point of view.”

Try pitching that to a movie studio. Camp did, and they laughed. Several years later, in 1971, he had formed his own production company. He never lost his determination to make a Benji movie, and began raising his own funds for just that purpose. “Benji” made it to the big screen in 1975, and 21 million people were touched, just as Camp hoped they would be. It was the surprise movie hit of the 1970s.

A second feature film, “For the Love of Benji,” followed. The scruffy star also appeared in several of his own TV specials. In 1980, a third Benji feature film was released by 20th Century Fox, “Oh Heavenly Dog,” starring Chevy Chase, Omar Sharif, and Jane Seymour. And in 1987, the fourth Benji flick, “Benji the Hunted,” hit theaters.

Certainly, there have been all sorts of reasons to explain why mixed-breed dog numbers have gone up since the 1980s, but arguably, Benji is an influential factor. To this day, it’s not unusual for people to go into a shelter and ask for a “Benji-type” dog. In fact, for the filming of the new “Benji” movie, Camp searched shelters nationwide, determined to use a homeless pet. One of his goals in creating the movie was to increase awareness about how wonderful shelter animals are.

Public popularity of Benji never diminished. But there were some behind-the-scenes issues that slowed the Benji machine. In 1988, Camp’s first wife, Carolyn, suffered a stroke. They decided to step out of show biz for a while to enjoy one another. Camp signed a partnership to keep the Benji name and image alive while he spent time with his wife until her death in 1997. But the business partnership went sour.

After his wife’s passing, Camp, determined to save the Benji name from languishing, wrangled back control of the company. Camp says it took four years and $1 million in legal fees, But in 2001, he and his second wife Kathleen were determined to roll out Benji all over again. When it was released earlier this year, the movie didn’t exactly make the splash he anticipated on the big screen. In fact, each of previous Benji movies outdistanced this one. Camp says what’s really sad is that “Benji Off the Leash!” might be the best of the bunch.

Of course, the movie landscape has changed since the last Benji movie 17 years ago. It is rare to find a producer who goes it alone on both production and distribution and succeeds at reaching a mass audience. “Well, Mel Gibson did it,” says Camp.

But the audience who did see the film, and many critics, including Roger Ebert, loved this Benji film. Joe and Kathleen now spend months crisscrossing the country with the famous pooch, living out of a suitcase to hype the movie the old-fashioned way. They get friendly receptions wherever they go.

Was bringing back Benji worth all this? Camp says, “Just say Benji—and people know who he is, and they still smile. That’s because Benji has always stood for certain values that we were never willing to compromise on.” For more information: http://www.BenjiReturns.com.


This matches IMDB ([2]):

  • Benji (1974)
  • For the Love of Benji (1977)
  • Benji at Work (1980) (TV)
  • Benji Takes a Dive at Marineland (1981) (TV)
  • Benji, Zax and the Alien Prince (1983)
  • Benji the Hunted (1987)
  • Benji: Off the Leash! (2004)
    • aka "Benji Returns: The Promise of Christmas" - USA (working title)
    • aka "Benji Returns: Rags to Riches" - USA (working title)

[edit] Appearance

I uploaded a great pic of a blue heeler (here), and then saw that this page already has seven pictures. And they're good ones, too. Should I fit my new blue heeler pic somewhere, or should I not bother? – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 22:14, Oct 2, 2004 (UTC)

It's a nice clear shot, and shows the dog's face, too, which is good. Did you take the photo? Elf | Talk 23:44, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Yep. – Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 14:42, Oct 3, 2004 (UTC)

I have also uploaded a good pic of a heeler. This is my parents' dog, and I took the photo. I thought this one was remarkable as she's a very "petite" dog- she's only about 18 pounds and about a year and a half old. She has very fine facial features, but a stocky body typical of heelers. I thought maybe this picture would help show more variety in the breed. Should I try to place the picture somewhere in the article as well? -jmootz20 19:17, 9 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Replaced main photo

Well, Harry has never been shown, and maybe he wouldn't qualify. I couldn't get him to stand nicely, particularly after my neighbour threw a couple of delicious meat patties over the fence.

But, honestly, as an Australian, I was offended by the sight of a heeler with a docked tail taking pride of place in the info box. The Blue Heeler is an Australian icon, so to speak. It's gotta look like a real dog. I intended to move the other pic down to the gallery, but I seem to have lost it. I'll have another try at finding it.

--Amandajm 09:07, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The nature of the beast

I removed the word "timid" from the description of the Cattle Dog's temperament. I've known a lot of heelers, but never one that answered to that description. "Wary", yes, definitely! But timid, no! I've known cattle dogs that were morose, sinister, sneaking assassins. I've known dogs that were bloody-minded turkey-gobbling chook-pen raiders. I've known absconding cattle dogs that were always down a rabbit-warren at milking time. I've known a low-down, foul-tempered one-eyed brute that earnt himself the title "the Red Peril of the Western Plains". But I've never yet known one that was timid! That's Kelpies, Mate! Woosy little brown dogs with an uncanny ability to manage sheep.

Amandajm 04:41, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] nice job

To everyone who contributed to this article, nice job. I really enjoyed reading it, it flows very well and seems to have about the right amount of information. One of my dogs is a dalmatian crossed with a cattle dog, so the dalmatian is strong in him, but reading this article tells me he does have some heeler traits. Anyway, congratulations on a job well done! — riana_dzasta wreak havoc|damage report 23:50, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Justice?

I just saw the photo of the ACD in the infobox at the start of the page. Do you believe this photo does the breed justice. Personally I don't think this dog embodies the majour qualities of ACD's. Especially when its the main representive image of the breed in the infobox. Who here supports a image change? I know I do. 'Culverin? Talk 07:40, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


I don't think that this photo does the particular dog justice. I'm not quite sure what you regard as the major qualities of ACDs. This animal seems to think he's a pretty good ACD. By I am all for finding a photo in which the dog is both a good representative of the breed, and it is also a good photo, ie. it shows the dog to advantage, including face, tail and so on.

Problem is, what are the present options?

  • When I put the pic of Harry up, it replaced the beautiful dog with the docked tail....righto? Definitely a no-goer!
  • There's the beautiful red dog.... but he's red, not blue, and I think that blue is the most representational. They have always (where I come from) outnumbered red heelers as working dogs by ten to one.
  • There's that magnificent show dog which is absolutely perfect,, but the photo doesn't show his face.
  • There's little Cutesy-Pie with his tail turned up......, and Chubs, and some pics of dogs doing activities, and that poor photo of a very nice dark coloured doggie that doen't show any of the required ginger points!

What we require is a really good photo of a really good dog.

Meanwhile, I'll look for a better picture of block-headed Harry! If anyone can provide a better picture of a real cattle dog, I won't be offended in the least.

--Amandajm 12:59, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Abbreviation to ACD

This is the only article where I've seen such abbreviation of the subject matter! Surely in place of ACD cattle dog could be used throughout?

I understand Australian Cattle Dog is too long but cattle dog is no longer than border collie.

Other than that it's a pretty good article. If it were to be reviewed for FA or A quality status though, they would demand in-line citation so we know just which elements come from each of the two references.... and two references is pretty slim pickings for anything better than B-class.Garrie 06:32, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] reverse-blue

from the above discussion - I think it would be well worth discussing in the /*appearance*/ section that there are distinct features which breeders are trying to avoid - such as hip displasure and the reverse-blue colouration. And if you have a good photo of a healthy-weight reverse-blue then it would be good to include!Garrie 06:40, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Uh-oh

Rather a lot of the text in this article seems very familiar to me... I shall check it out and let you all know. Also fourth paragraph in the history section seems to contradict itself - "the Cattle Dog was crossed with the Dalmatian ... when in fact no dalmatian blood was introduced." Clarification? I am a lemon 04:46, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

In fact the whole article seems to contradict itself about whether there is dalmatian ancestry in the Australian Cattle Dog. I am a lemon 04:54, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I must have been mistaken. I feel silly now. Sorry everyone!I am a lemon 02:36, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Layout

The layout of this article is just plain ghastly. We have two boxes, on on the left and one on the right, which if seen on a wide screen leave a great gap of nothing in the middle. It seems to mme to bbe completely superfluous to have two boxes aboout one breed.. cannnot the information be combined?

Amandajm (talk) 11:25, 12 January 2008 (UTC)