Talk:Audie Murphy

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[edit] Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Assessment

Needs references and citations to keep its B status.

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 15:49, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Most decorated?

Are we certain that he is the Most Decorated? I was under the impression that Sgt Llewellyn Chilson was the most decorated, but not as famous due to the fact he never received the MoH. Can we get some research on this? Stephanie 13:09, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

My references are miscellaneous websites, but there is such a lack of information on him. Regardless, my references upon searching are:

http://www.cprofota.com/army.html A personal webpage

http://www.historynet.com/magazines/world_war_2/3421316.html Cited from the history channel documentary

http://www.45thdivision.org/Veterans/Chilson.htm Another personal webpage

I'm pretty sure Murphy at the time was the most decorated, I don't know much about Chilson but according to your links the medals break down as follows: Dist. Service Cross (3 for Chilson 1 for Murphy) Legion of Merit 1 each Silver Stars 2 each Bronze Star (1 for Chilson and 2 for Murphy) Also Murphy had the MOH, so they are at 7 valor awards each, not counting Murphy's medals from other countries and purple hearts —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.54.183.222 (talk) 19:35, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Wouldn't the most decorated soldier in US history be one of the people with two Medals of Honor? Does one MoH outrank any number of the lower awards? Does two MoH's outrank one MoH plus any number of lower awards?

Also, Douglas MacArthur has an MoH and a distinguished Service Cross (with two oak leaf clusters- 3 awards of the DSC). Wouldn't that count as more highly decorated than Audie Murphy? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.90.200.220 (talk) 03:19, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

No, because the word is "most [period]" and the primary point is simply quantity, not level of honor. The latter is being used only as a tie-breaker between Murphy and Chilson, so MacArthur isn't in the running. Ted Watson (talk) 19:20, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Height

"Although only 5'5" tall, Audie Murphy fought in World War II with such courage..." Doesn´t this imply that you´re unlikely to be courageous if you´re short? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.210.23.124 (talk) 16:10, 24 June 2004 (UTC)

No. He was rejected by the Marine Corp for being too small. What it says is that even though Murphy wasn't a large man, he was a great man. Stargoat 00:29, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Maybe that should be made more pronounced than it currently is? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.210.23.124 (talk) 12:32, 25 June 2004 (UTC)

He was also denied enlistment into the airborne infantry as unfit for the combat requirements deemed necessary and essential for airborne duty due to his physical size.

[edit] Broken link

Can someone check the link to Medal of Liberated France? When I click on it from Audie Murphy's list of medals, it goes straight into the "Edit" page and does not redirect to the proper article. Perhaps a bug? User:Husnock 9 Jul 2004

[edit] Add description of actions

Can someone maybe add to this what exactly Murphy did to earn all his medals and decorations? I think I remember reading it somewhere, and it would add alot to the article. Maybe I'll look into it if no one else does, but it's be better to have someone more familiar with the subject write it. -R. fiend 06:47, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)


[edit] Deleted unsourced statement

I deleted "He was also accused of being a pedophile." I could find nothing on Google which supports this accusation, and I asked the poster to verify it, but they did not reply. John Barleycorn 18:51, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Death site edit

A year or so ago, this site erroneously stated his fatal crash was near Norfolk. I changed it to "near Roanoke". Someone later edited that it was "near Galax, outside of Roanoke" (paraphrased).

Audie's plane did not go down near Galax. Rather, it was near Catawba. The site is *near* 37.351°N, 80.251°W (not exact!), within a mile of the Craig, Roanoke, and Montgomery County junction. Galax is about 60 miles away.

I also added the mountain's name - Brush Mountain. Appalachian's mountains are really mountain ridges, and names are often given to an entire ridge as opposed to specific peaks. This is the case for Brush Mountian.

I have seen one mention (http://www.roanoke.com/outdoors/hiking/1143.html) that the plane was en route to Martinsville, Virginia, but could not verify this. The story in the link is about hiking, not specifically Audie's death or its circumstances, thus I am skeptical of the fact-checking in that article.

see also http://www.audiemurphy.com/roanoke.htm

While I was at it, I added that there was a marker near the crash site. I used the above external link as well. I felt that this was more of a "Death" category mention instead of a "Honors" category mention. July 31, 2005 7PM EDT —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.15.140.106 (talk)

[edit] Rumors of Murphy's behavior

I had also heard a rumor about AM being a pedophile, but when I went to look into it I couldn't find anything of the sort. Until I really get a gritty biography of the man, I'd say it's probably a VERY twisted misinterpretation/ rumor without basis. I did find that he had had a couple of assault charges, I imagine during the period he was struggling with PTSD. The page also went on to make the statement that being trained and experienced as a combatant had effect on his behavior outside of the military. I don't have the link handy unfortunately. November 26, 2005 8PM C (+3 GMT) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.5.196.22 (talk)

Such allegations about someone needs to be researched, cited by some substantial source. Make sure it's not some funky Web site proclaiming that it has the "truth". --speedoflight | talk to me 17:04, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
Another example of the Gay Lobby in action. This can be found throughout Wikipedia. Yes, they want to insinuate that every prominant person was gay, thereby legitimizing unnatural behavior.Lestrade 18:57, 26 March 2007 (UTC)Lestrade
Another example of Bigotry in action. Homosexuality and pedophilia are NOT interchangeable, or even related, terms.165.176.123.2 15:43, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
17-June-2007: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - I would advise 3 independent (obviously independent) sources for claims of extreme behavior. Wikipedia has enough reliability issues without being viewed as "Enquirer-opedia" because vandalism has been lasting 3-to-7 months in some articles. I saw notes about AM carrying a gun to film sets, but just in one source, and anyway, that invites troublesome edits to the main article. Perhaps the best way to limit problems is to spin-off an "Audie Murphy controversies" article to keep sensational edits away from verification of the larger main article. A similar approach created "Criticisms of The Da Vinci Code" which has grown to over 30 sections, and that book was fiction, not one of the most famous REAL war heroes of recent history. I strongly advise using a separate article, as I undo hidden vandalism almost daily. Someone hacked that AM dropped out in "5th grade" which makes no sense when hearing him speak in films, so I checked the sources and restored "eighth grade" after a 6-week botch. Vandalism is a major problem: separating articles could help. -Wikid77 03:45, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Recipient", not "winner"

"the tombstones of Medal of Honor winners" -- I keep seeing this all over this reference site. You do not "win" the Medal of Honor! Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, Airmen, Cost Guardsmen, and in one known case a civilian, are "recipients" of this award. This, in all actuallity, is how all awards or decorations should be referred to.

68.100.161.83 23:05, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Changed URL

changed URL for trivia about 'to hell and back' from reference to rock album of the same name back to correct reference - andy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.72.148.102 (talk) 02:08, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV

We may agree with this, but it's very POV:

"One also must question Eisenhower's authority to make such a statement, since he never served in combat himself." Brainhell 03:23, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Added info on parents

Added some information on Murphy's mom and dad,

L.J. Brooks 01:20, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] rank

What for rank he have? Murderman 13:25, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

He went up through the ranks, from private to the commissioned rank of 1st lieutenant at the end of World War II and major during later National Guard service.--Buckboard 10:21, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] amused

well, he was a high mason - anyone have a theoretical view of why his plane crashed? (ANY time a plane crash is the cause of a death of someone famous - i'm reminded that congress has the highest mortality rate of any profession - usually from plane crashes)

my research is masonry... and for good reason. you watch 'the Legend of Zoro'? ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.61.213.37 (talk) 20:12, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copied

Some of this is copied from another page! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.177.12.188 (talk) 09:13, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

17-June-2007: A year later, I also saw several word-for-word phrases, and have been paraphrasing those sections. -Wikid77 03:51, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article has no sources

I don't see much references/sources. So I have added a unsourced tag at the top as well as one for original research. ResurgamII 18:54, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I added several links to other wikipedia pages, but have noticed there is no standard on CMH references in wikipedia. Since they generally have the same format, should there be a uniform format? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Autkm (talk • contribs) 21:22, 5 September 2006
It needs references and not just links to other articles or web sites. Surely there must be some published references that can be added. What parts do you consider original research? Is it the parts with weasel words? Someone should really work on getting this article untagged. Remember that tags are meant as an encouragement, not something permanent. MartinDK 08:10, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
10-June-2007: Although 7 months have passed, on June 9, I began adding 120 footnote references for several independent sources (not Wikipedia mirror feeds). Most of those 120+ facts were verified, except had to fix dropping out in "eighth grade" (95% of sources, but said "fifth grade" as changed/vandalized on 25Apr07). I moved the cleanup/OR tags, but the #1 footnote might verify most of the potential original-research issues about detailed battle actions and injuries (had 5 French medals). Most sources confirmed Audie Murphy is the #2 man, after JFK, for visits to Arlington. Also, I have re-added the deleted Army/Life images (with fair-use rationale), restoring the article to the good mid-April-2007 content, but strongly defended by sources now. -Wikid77 18:24, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] You shouldn't be in pictures

I deleted this. The bio box already has a pic, with the Medal, so I don't see a particular need for another. Image:Photo audiemurphy.jpg Trekphiler 14:59, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Medal of Honor

There is a difference between the Medal of Honor and the Congressional Medal of Honor. The article says he received the latter from the army, though in reality he received the former. Check the articles on the two awards for clarification. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.199.225.154 (talk) 20:18, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

There is only one U.S. award with the title "Medal of Honor." It is often referred to as the Congressional Medal of Honor because it is the only award that requires congressional oversight. The award is only ever referred to as the Medal of Honor in military manuals and regulations. All of these documents are open to the public and available for download if you want to check. PvtDeth 05:40, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Restored/defended

17-June-2007: The article in mid-2007 has been 99.9% accurate. During June 9-12, I added 120 footnote references from several independent sources (not Wikipedia mirror feeds). Most of those 120+ facts were verified, except had to fix dropout in "eighth grade" (per 95% of sources, but WP article had "fifth grade" as edited/vandalized on 25Apr07). I moved the cleanup/WP:OR tags, but the top footnote might verify most of the potential original-research issues about detailed battle actions and injuries (AM had 5 French medals). Most sources confirmed Audie Murphy is the #2 man, after JFK, for visits to Arlington cemetery. Also, I have re-added the deleted Army/Life images (with fair-use rationale), restoring the article to the accurate mid-April-2007 content + battle details, and also strongly defended by several sources now. -Wikid77 05:43, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

  • 28-May-2008 Almost a year later, it looks like all the sections that have been flagged possible OR and needing citations have been well cited. I am going to go ahead and remove the header. Thanks for the work! Clegs (talk) 16:46, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Low importance?

17-June-2007: Note "This article has been rated LOW importance" (?) in Wikiprojects. What a shock, but some sources warned that people don't know him. At Arlington Natl cemetery, Murphy is #2 visited, after JFK. I recall him being the "poster boy" for shell-shock (PTSD), before "Vietnam baby killers" became a jaded phrase. Now we have military "Audie Murphy Clubs" (gee). My hunch, try: IMPORTANT or "VERY IMPORTANT" as the main man signifying "violence begets violence" and speaking about it, in defense of the next-generation of PTSD troops. Also, how do underfed teenagers win a war with little ammunition? I don't recall Murphy whining about going to war with "no bullets" but, let's get some perspective, and re-rank this article much higher. -Wikid77 05:43, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chapter military awards

There should be one.--85.180.48.7 17:54, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Relative of Audie Murphy

My name is Jerry P. Stewart and the reason I'm writing this is because when Audie was killed in the plane crash in 1971, I was fighting in Vietnam. My Grandmothers maiden name was Murphy before she married. Her name was Violet Murphy and was one of Audie's cousins. He came to one of our family Christmas gatherings when I was very young, but I didn't know who he was at that time. My sister remembered him and still talks about that Christmas as a special time in her life, getting to meet him there. Anyway, to get to the point of my discussion, while I was in Vietnam I received a letter from a person who was doing a biography on Audie Murphy. In that letter he asked me to sign a release of some kind, asking for permission to include me, a relative who was in Vietnam fighting war when he died. Of course I said yes, not knowing how he found out I was there. I've, to this date, never found out if I was ever mentioned in any book. If anyone knows any information about this, I would appreciate it very much. I was 18 years old when I went to Vietnam, fought battles, received some metals, and also have been diagnosed with PTSD. I wasn't a hero like Audie, but I did everything I could just to stay alive. I was on, what they called a Duster Tank, (M42A1), which was one of the most deadliest weapons over there. We were called Duster Tanks because we seriously dusted anything we shot at. I was proud to have fought in the Vietnam war even though when I came home, we were called, " Baby Killers", instead of hero's. Everyday is a struggle to get through with my PTSD, so what I'm trying to say is I now know what Audie must have been going though. PTSD is real and very debilitating. 72.160.15.152 (talk) 19:48, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Year of birth

The year of Audie's birth, in both the infobox and the introductory passage, has been going back and forth between 1924 and 1925 lately. Note this statement in the sub-section "Enlistment": "In June 1942, shortly after his 17th birthday (sister Corinne adjusted his birthday so he appeared to be 18 and could legally enlist, and his war memoirs, To Hell and Back, maintained this misinformation, leading to later confusion and contradictory statements as to his year of birth), Murphy was accepted into the United States Army." Please do the math, and you'll see that this means he was born in 1925. Either Audie's ghostwriter Spec McClure didn't know any better, or Murphy was afraid he'd lose his veteran's benefits if the truth came out so soon after the war (I am not suggesting that any of that go into the article, mind you). As he is buried in the nation's number one military cemetery, the birth year in Department of Defense records, 1924, is what appears on his grave marker. I am going to put "1925" back in those two places. Either leave them alone, or challenge the passage quoted above as well. Ted Watson (talk) 20:15, 20 April 2008 (UTC)