Talk:Auctoritas
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I don't think this page is at all well written, and it is quite inaccurate in some ways. It misses the main use of auctoritas during the republic and the principade, the auctoritas of the jurist. The jurist isn't some kind of king, but simply a private person who makes it his business to inquire on the just. So it seems strange to link auctoritas to charisma, it is rather linked to the socially recognized knowledge, especially of the prudents. Note the consent of the patterfamilias (and most other forms of consent) receive the name iussum.
A second opinion: I agree that this is not well-written. It also ignores the less legal, intangibled quality of auctoritas in the Roman Republic as a respect and deference recognized as belonging to one by virtue of achievement. Julius Caesar had a great deal of auctoritas long before he became dictator. Pompeius also had it. It is more than just a legal construct.
Third opinion: This does seem like a poor introduction to the concept of auctoritas. Presentation of Agamben's theory might belong in an extended discussion, although it sounds at best tangential, as he seems to speak more to a specific abuse or failure of authority than auctoritas as such. I'm also not sure why Arendt is cited in the bibliography--the article does not really get into her more basic and relevant insights into the nature of auctoritas/authority, or the significance of its etymology (augere). For that matter, Mommsen--mentioned only in passing--could probably provide us with a more adequate account of the term's historical significance. --mmori
O.K., I did something about it! Agamben's argument was copied straight from Agamben article, so I removed most of it. I added a treatment of "auctoritas" from Arendt. Tried to round out the article in general. Also applied some basic categories, linked to "Classical Civilizations" portal, and added many other internal links, specific to Ancient Rome wherever possible. (Many were not originally specific to Ancient Rome, such as "magistrates" instead of "magistratus" etc.) Hopefully, I haven't damaged the Roman law portion of this article. An interested party should probably fix up the Agamben article, which seems to be full of grammatical errors, as well as fairly specialized legal language. At the very least, the Agamben article link to this article ought to be updated. --mmori
Your addition to the section on the Roman context misses a great deal of the use and scope of auctoritas. It suggests that you misunderstand which it is in the context. Auctoritas was more than a legal concept. In the abstract, the amount of clout and respect someone had. It was one's ability to mobilize support and have his will enacted by the consent of one's peers. It was an unspoken ability to lead, a level of prestige, etc. A quick look in the Oxford Latin Dictionary would tell you this and more about its original uses.
- Please sign your comments (with four tildes (~)), so we can better follow the discussion. Thanks. - Fils du Soleil 20:31, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Reorganization of the page
As said before, the page was quite poorly written and often obscure to the point of being confusing. I reorganized it along two axes :
- Cleaned the introduction, which was very long, tedious and unclear, to leave only the basic definition of the concept (which is what the intro should be anyway).
- Created two new sections, Etymology and origin and Political meaning in Ancient Rome and moved the corresponding content there.
I also added the concept of auctoritas principis (Roman Empire), and made a few other modifications here and there (mostly intended towards more clarity).
- Fils du Soleil 20:46, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
I find it interesting that nobody has made mention of the concept of "auctoritas" as applied to medieval epic poetry, since it is the closest literary device to Wikipedia's own demand that nobody submit "original research". Sylvia Huot (http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0038-7134(199001)65%3A1%3C177%3AFSTBTP%3E2.0.CO%3B2-G) and Bill Burgwinkle (http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/journal_of_lesbian_and_gay_studies/v010/10.4burgwinkle.html) among others have published on the matter. 81.156.71.111 02:28, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
