Talk:Atonement (novel)

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[edit] Maybe and Odd Criticism

I haven't read the book, but I checked out the entry to get some idea of what the movie might be about. The description of the plot is, IMO, pretty poorly written and makes the novel sound like a big pile of crap. Phrases like "confused as to its meaning" and "why he upsets her so." Just come off rather clunkily and the article makes it seem like Cecilia realizes she "loves" Robbie because he wrote her a dirty letter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.218.221.152 (talk) 04:58, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Category: Novels with a pedophile theme?

I do not believe this is an appropriate category for this book. Shoehorn 07:52, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

it's not Barbara Osgood 23:55, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong date on backside of cover

The 2002 Vintage paperback edition (and possible other editions as well) incorrectly states that the book opens in 1934. Here is some proof to the contrary:

- In part one, when Briony sits down in her room attempting to write about what she has seen at the fountain, shortly before Lola comes in (p. 41 in the Vintage edition): "Six decades later she would describe how at the age of thirteen she had written her way through a whole history of literature, beginning with stories derived from the European tradition of folk tales, through drama with simple moral intent, to arrive at an impartial psychological realism which she had discovered for herself, one special morning during a heat wave in 1935." Briony is a lesbian - In part four, during Briony's birthday party (p. 369 in the Vintage edition): "Competing with a wailing baby at the back of the room, I tried to evoke that hot summer of nineteen thirty-five, when the cousins came down from the north."

Carmencantora 15:33, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed incorrect text

The article previously stated that "The hospital is also the place where Briony writes the first draft of her book (a novella about the fountain scene)." The novel states quite unambiguously that Briony is staying with relatives when she writes the book, so I've removed this. Solyolyo 18:56, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Added Twelfth Night to list of Allusions

I added twelfth night to the list of literary works refrenced, given the photo of (and obvious similarities between) Robbie as Malvolio, which I believe is also refrenced later in the book.

[edit] Rape of Lola

I haven't altered the article but I feel someone should, to include the evasive aspect of this- it is never made clear in the book if it is indeed rape or consensual. Also I feel some mention should be made of the paedophilia aspect. Basically, to mention the rape/consensual sex question, and indeed the triangle of the three potential culprits. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.73.222.219 (talk) 15:13, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

From the fact that Lola gets married to the millionaire Paul and Lolas reluctance to tell details about the person who violated her, it can be assumed that in fact it was consensual sex. Its difficult to believe that Lola was really raped and then later get "accidently" married to that person (Paul) who raped her. Its much more likey that both got caught in the act by Briony and Lola invented this rape by an unknown to comply with the victorianian habits/ Victorian_morality and protect both thus her and Pauls integraty. Additionally she must have recognised the voice of the millionare when he "contacted" her in the darkness before actually raping her. Plus: Briony had invented the same day an other rape in the library as well. so she was kind of awaiting to name any anonymous rapist which should present himself at the scene. --Stefanbcn (talk) 16:53, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm not so sure; at the family dinner before the incident, Briony notices that Paul has scratches on his face, just as Lola has scratches and bruises. I thought that this was a clue that Paul had tried to attack her before dinner at some point, and that Lola, for whatever reason (perhaps because Paul had threatened her) told everyone that the brothers had done it. Also, as an adult, Briony still thinks of Paul as a rapist, even though she has "grown up," as she says, and changed her mind (or realised the truth) about everything else. I think that he, therefore, did rape Lola, and that Briony's conclusions as an adult are correct. Besides, I don't think Lola "accidentally" married the man who raped her; if you recall, she herself seemed to have been swayed into believing Briony's lies to a certain degree herself, and was perhaps persuaded into ignoring Paul's guilt.
That's just what I got out of it, though, and I understand your ideas. Maybe McEwan wanted to leave it ambiguous.--DearPrudence (talk) 07:45, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Lola and Paul Marshall are used by McKewan to encourage the reader to make the same mistake as Briony. All evidence as to Marshall's guilt is circumstantial. Was it rape or was it consensual? We are in the same position as Briony. We don't actually know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.183.134.130 (talk) 06:10, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I had that exact same insight too! I wonder no one has posed it to McEwan before to get his take on it. User: Afghan Historian —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.255.202.121 (talk) 03:35, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Atonement (novel).jpg

Image:Atonement (novel).jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 18:56, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] OR tag

The entire objects/themes section is OR, lacking a single citation or source. Tagged as such. - Anonymous user, 01:45, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Objects and Places

The objects/places section is not well written. It is basically a jumbled collection of arbitrary opinions.

[edit] McEwan had only a brother

In the actual novel written by Ian McEwan, the reader knows that in fact the two lovers died tragically and were never reunited, and that Briony was haunted all her life by having irreversibly deprived them of their chance for happiness. However, in the universe of the novel-within-a-novel where Briony is the author, the novel which readers would see would end at with part 3 - a happy ending, where the two survive the war and embark on a happy life together. Only the most curious, who would dig into the novel's autobiographical background, would discover that in reality the writer's sister and the sister's lover were killed in the war.

According to this article, McEwan has only one sibling - his long-lost brother. Am I misreading the above paragraph or does it really imply that he had a sister as well? --DearPrudence (talk) 09:12, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

No, you're right as in that article is wrong (more slight ambiguity!). "The writer" could not refer to Briony because the novel would not have what they write as an "autobiographical background". It's wrong though. — Poe Joe (formerly Ian Lee) (Talk) 12:13, 19 May 2008 (UTC)