Talk:Atlantis (brothel)

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Do we really need a page that seems to advertise a brothel?

No we don't. The apparent hijacking of parts of the wikipedia to seemingly advertise and promote portions of the 'adult' industry has been a long-term concern of mine. Regrettably the poltically correct, 'liberated' mahjoirity seem to win 95% or so of the time. Arno (talk) 05:41, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Depending on how you emphasize the words in your question, I have different answers:
  • "Do we really need a page that seems to advertise a brothel?"
It was my intention to describe rather than to advertise. If you feel that the description is slanted in favor and not neutral, by all means join in and edit. Of course I realize that sometimes a mere neutral description can serve as advertising, and I don't know how to avoid that. Your removing the link to their home page may have been a good step in that direction.
  • "Do we really need a page that seems to advertise a brothel?"
Brothels are legal businesses in many parts of the world including that part where Atlantis is located, so I don't see the point of this objection.
  • "Do we really need a page that seems to advertise a brothel?"
Of course we don't really need that page. Nor do we really need a comprehensive encyclopedia. AxelBoldt 13:06, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)


AxelBoldt Forgive me for being so presumptuous about your article. I really need to think before I start removing links and posting things for deletion. I'm new to Wikipedia and your comments have convinced me that I need to be more judicious. Had I examined your User link I would have done nothing.

I suppose I found that the article did not really explain anything new about what goes on in Brothels. Not being from Germany I was not aware of its fame. I therefore made the assumption that it was an advert dressed up as an article, simply because I couldn't see any new and important information. If German brothels differ from others then perhaps it could be re-titled or re-worded to be a more general article about German Brothels, rather than being about a specific one.

Again, I apologise. I will make my opinion seen on the "deletion page" that I have changed my mind. Neilinoz 13:15, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)

That's ok, no need to apologise. Regarding your question: I believe that the type of brothel exemplified by Atlantis is fairly unique to Germany, and even in Germany there are only 3 or 4 similar places. Most German brothels are quite different. AxelBoldt 14:18, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)

--- July 2005:

That is not true, there are at least 30 major brothels in Germany that operate under a similar set up. Men and women both paying entrance fees to use the facilities and the women keeping 100% of their cut, with pimps barred from the premises. The facilities are not all on as large a scale, but these sort of FKK or Saunaclubs exist in Stuttgart, Augsburg (by Munich), Nurnberg, Cologne, Düsseldorf, the whole Ruhrgebeit, Hannover, Leipzig, Hamburg, and even similar clubs exist in Berlin. It is also the only form of prostitution which is expanding in investment at the moment, with new clubs opening all the time. This is definitely taking the upper hand and taking business away from appartments and Eros centers.

The first of these clubs opened in Hennef near Bonn more than 20 years ago, and they are based on the Thermas model in Brazil.

Please do mention that it's unusual and give a short summary of how a typical brothel in Germany operates, so people will know why it is unusual. Jamesday 12:43, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)


[edit] VfD

The following discussion took place on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion between February 3 and February 8, 2003:

  • Atlantis (brothel) - I already deleted a link to a porn site from this page. It is an article about a Brothel in Germany, indicating how much money prostitutes will pay for certain acts. There is no new information about Brothels or sexual acts. It seems to exist as some form of advertisement. Neilinoz
    • Delete ad. Bmills 12:41, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Delete ad. - Texture 16:37, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep non-ad. - Anthony DiPierro 21:18, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • It's not everyday you see an ad for a brothel. Sweet. Sadly, it's gotta go. →Raul654 21:21, Feb 3, 2004 (UTC)
      • I change my vote. Subsequent comments have said it is famous, and (assuming that to be correct) that would make it encyclopedic. But the article should say that it is famous - omitting such an important "detail" is a major flaw in the article. →Raul654 21:47, Feb 4, 2004 (UTC)
        • Saying it's famous would be POV. Anthony DiPierro 21:40, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
          • Would you say that Madonna's fame is POV? Or George W. Bush?. - Texture 21:50, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
            • No. I wouldn't. Anthony DiPierro 22:46, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
              • The term famous is POV, simply because of this question: Is Madonna famous or is she infamous? Kingturtle 22:48, 7 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • It is as neutral and complete a description of the brothel as I could produce. The place is well-known and has repeatedly been covered in German media. Wikipedia has several other articles about brothels and red light districts. "deleted link to a porn site" -- it was a link to the brothel's home page; I can live with the link's deletion. "no new information about Brothels" -- it has a lot of new information about this particular brothel, as well as some new information about other German brothels and prostitution in Germany in general. "or sexual acts" -- an article about a brothel should not be deleted because it doesn't contain new information about sexual acts. See also the article's Talk page. AxelBoldt 01:58, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep(!). The article is perfectly good (NPOV, not ad-ey), the only question is whether it's "famous". I'm willing to take Axel's word on that. Axel: if it's famous, the article should say it's famous, and I think it should cite a couple of said mentions in the media. Oh, and find some scandal: it won't read like encomium if there's some dope or a corpse or two. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 02:30, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)
      • The article should not say it's famous. That would be POV. Anthony DiPierro 02:39, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep! The article is pure information. Information is power. That's what wikipedia stands for. I don't see any ad at all - and if you do, remove the part you consider an ad, and don't delete the article. MJanich
    • Keep! Great article. Shows how a brothel works in the EU. --mav 10:35, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep - I've changed my mind because my original post was based on ignorance of the facts and not checking the past contributions of the author. I still think it needs to be a more general article though. See Talk page. Neilinoz (UTC)
    • Keep, though it's probably longer than it needs to be considering it's just a medium-sized business. Psychonaut 14:49, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • indicating how much money prostitutes will pay for certain acts - hey they pay you? This must be most popular brother in the world, and thus keep. More seriously: keep, reasonable enough article. Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 21:28, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. The Fellowship of the Troll 04:32, 5 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Keep. I recently needed economic data on brothel behaviour for a serious academic article, and found there is almost none because of the semi-subterranean nature of the activity. Also the issue of foreign nationals working in the EU sex industry is socially and politically important. Much of the "information" around all issues to do with the sex industry is highly POV (and not just from one POV either). This article looks like a useful and objective summary. seglea 20:29, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)

It can be kept , but it just has no special/constructive value to be kept here. I find much more interested in knowing how familar you are to the world porn businesses ( i.e which brothels have you ever visited ? )or your frequency to visit such places (i.e how many brothels you have been visited up to this moment ? ) rather than this " neutral article " about a so called German particular brothel ??? ( Because it gives us more confidence and power to make sure you are well qualified to write a "report like " article as "Atlantis (brothel)" on the porn field )..Well( "Alantis" is neutral enough , but next time you can also be neutral on other topics like talking about the world charity organisations (eg : About anti-AIDS , anti wars,etc )and mention their specialities - the rest of the world falls in poverty , unfortune ,hopelessness , etc NEEDS you everytime and everywhere ...be reminded ! )(By the way , how special is that Alantis actually ? Personally , I cannot find any specialities of this brothel than the others - same nature (selling sex) ,same facilities ( big mirrors , dynamic beds , swimming pools , spa , bathrooms ),and even same mind of the prostitutes and customers (money , sex- group sex , any kinds of sex and LOVE ? )- the only i can say is the pools there may look just a bit bigger.. ) ...Well , I read that you are a professor , why didn't you take " sex study " as your major instead of mathematics ? From that "Alantis" article , I also read that the prostitutes can earn easy/quick and handsome amount of money , being a prostitute there can be better than being a professor in the USA ...you can enjoy sex and being paid as part of your work , why don't you consider it ? Make a try ? (Does everyone here know what is advertising ? It is " publicize " something in nature to draw others' attention by different channels , it's not definitely commerical , so posting an article here , on the internet, can come to this effect ...if anyone of you lost your lovely pets or even your old mommies ,cars , you can post a message ( for any personal favour like "Mr.Professor" who writes this " Alantis " ) here ...wikipedia leaves us so much freedom , but should not be abused ---- Mens rea v Cheung ( a beautiful mind from lady beauty )

I am sorry to say that I will not satisfy your burning interest in my brothel visiting habits. Regarding your suggesting of taking up "sex study" or becoming a prostitute: I find copulation rather boring compared to adjoint functors. All the best, AxelBoldt 01:18, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Are you travelling in Hong Kong ?Oh weird , I'm from Hong Kong ... Mens rea v Cheung