User:Athaenara/Comedy

[edit] I dunno, I might have to shoot myself

This dispute occurred on what was then called Talk:Que Será Será (House episode).

→ Related issues (more than you want to know) in User talk:Athaenara/Archive 3#Naming conventions.

[edit] Accent marks

According to the official series website, the title of the Que Sera Sera episode did not have accent marks added. The same problem exists on the song page; correcting the article is easy compared to correcting the name of the article. — Athaenara 20:07, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

No, that website is wrong, because sera means nothing special, será means will be. Blindman shady 01:11, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I addressed not meanings of words but a network series episode title with the same unaccented spelling as a song. (Quite aside from the title, the episode having been named what it was named: in Spanish, será means it will be, while (la) sera is a type of basket, usually without handles.) The language of the song is, in the words of one poster on the song talk page, "generic Hollywood Romance language." — Athaenara 02:27, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Baskets have nothing to do with the episode. Blindman shady 20:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Titles of Episode and Article

(As previously and plainly stated, my remark above applied to specific linguistic claims about the words será and sera quite aside from the episode title.)   → On to the main points:

(1.) Encyclopedia articles require verifiable facts, not non-NPOV/OR alterations. You gave no sources, nor did you review the sources provided by another editor in support of assertions of fact. What you termed "that website" is the FOX Broadcasting Company's own site, which confirms that the official episode title is "Que Sera Sera" (no comma, no accent marks, regardless of what anyone else might suppose it should have been named instead.)

(2.) From the article history (timestamps UTC 2006):

• "18:30, 24 December / Athaenara (moved Que Será Será (House episode) to Que Sera Sera (House episode): Accent marks spurious. Please note verification & sources on talk pages for both song & episode.)"

(If you do not know what spurious means, see the Wiktionary definition including synonyms: false; fake; counterfeit.) There are sound factual reasons for my edit summary. Such edit summaries are intended not to be ignored but to be verified. No one can force you to do that but, had you done so, you would have known that there is no encyclopedic basis for returning it to the former page name, as you then did:

• "20:09, 24 December / Blindman shady (moved Que Sera Sera (House episode) to Que Será Será (House episode): Accents needed)"

This edit summary, in contrast, is neither factual nor supported by references to pertinent and valid sources.

(3.) Like all good Wikipedians, I strive to avoid edit warring, so I will not revert immediately. I waited more than a week for discussion, after stating my views, the reasons for them, and providing sources for verification, before moving the page. You, however, with no discussion, reverted within less than two hours. If you revert it again, rather than verifying the factual basis for moving the page to the correct network series episode name, some form of dispute resolution will be needed. Please study the dispute resolution page to understand what is involved. — Athaenara 07:13, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

I think my knowledge in Spanish overrides most of what you have said. When you have an "á" at the end of an infinitive verb "ser" for example, it means will. Ser means "to be". Therefore, será means will be. Que means what or whatever. Therefore it fits: Whatever will be, will be. Not Whatever basket, basket. Blindman shady 08:24, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

This has nothing whatsoever to do with your, or anyone else's, personal knowledge of Spanish or, in fact, with what I personally said, though it does have much to do with valid and pertinent sources (which you seem utterly unwilling to view) which attest to the facts.

It is about the actual titles of an American popular song and an American television series, neither of which, as it happens, whether or not they sound Spanish to you or to anyone else, have genuine Spanish names.

Is something preventing you from checking the links for the image of the sheet music and the AMPAS awards archives? They're on the song talk page. Or the link for the Fox network page showing the real episode title? It's on this page. — Athaenara 09:48, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Ever heard of lazy people? Accents aren't easy to make for people who are payed [sic] small amounts to moniter a webpage. The fact is, sera, in english I believe, means nothing. Que is a spanish word, ergo it must be a spanish title. Blindman shady 18:47, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

No. Wikipedia is not a personal blog, it is an encyclopedia. Your arguments are analogous to supposing that the article about the band Linkin Park should be named Lincoln Park. When this House episode article is returned to the correct name, will you accept the encyclopedic reality and refrain from obstructing it, or will you revert it again, inviting external dispute resolution which will go against you? — Athaenara 19:39, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Good point, except, by saying what you did, you could say that we should change the episode "Fools for Love" to "Fool for Love"… Blindman shady 22:53, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

As all such articles should be, the Fools for Love article name is identical to that of its subject. When this article is returned to the correct name, will you refrain from obstructing it? — Athaenara 23:50, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

I dunno, I might have to shoot myself over the matter. Blindman shady 01:04, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Would you two let it go? It's just a simple accent mark. TV.com says accent marks. As long as we are consistent, who cares what the titles are? The original Spanish/French (means approximately the same thing in both languages, I believe) have accents as well. Please don't get into an edit war or argument over such a simple thing. PullToOpen^Talk 02:26, 26 December 2006 (UTC)   Please ignore me in the dispute resolution process. Thank you, PullToOpen^Talk 04:06, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 3rd opinion

I saw this listed on WP:3O and will give what insight I can.

I would say go with what the official site says - that is what the title officially is, regardless of spelling errors (who knows, maybe they spelled it wrong on purpose!) English is notorious for spelling foreign languages' words wrong or using the wrong terms for things, and I don't really see this as being any different. I think the Linkin Park example is another good example of this (although it's English... sigh). On a side note, the article about the song of the same name mentions that it's unclear if it should be the Italian or the Spanish spelling. So saying it must be Spanish is not necessarily true.

I would also say that in the opening sentence, perhaps add a "(sic)" to denote that the article uses the improperly spelled way. In other words, it should look like this: Que Sera Sera (sic) is the sixth episode of the third season of House, and the fifty-second episode overall.

Hope that helps, --DarthBinky 04:18, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, DarthBinky—maybe it will. The question whether the page move/rename will be reverted again if the article name is corrected still hasn't been answered, but I waited more than a week for discussion before. More time won't hurt anything. — Athaenara 05:06, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Heh, well, I can't help you on that one.  :) Cheers --DarthBinky 05:43, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 3rd opinion Sideshow

• Posted on Wikipedia:Third opinion
• Removed
• Bewildered
• Restored
• Reply
• Confused
• Head spinning

[edit] Epilogue and footnote

Que Será Será (House episode) moved to Que Sera Sera (House episode).

A look at how many ways Wikipedians think it should be spelled: more than 15 redirect pages.

[edit] Edit summaries

My favourite edit summaries:

• (replaced a comma with a colon. shoot me now ...)

[edit] Non-comedic general notice