Talk:Athabaskan languages

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To-do list for Athabaskan languages:

edit · history · watch · refresh

Here are some tasks you can do: Brief mention of the proposals for genetic relationships, especially the widely accepted link to Eyak and Tlingit, but also the controversial inclusion of Haida in the Na-Dene family. Just a brief info, nothing more ;-) Some shared (typological, regarding morphology, syntax, and so on) characteristics Regular correspondences, if possible. Feel free to add other points as well. --Pet'usek [petrdothrubisatgmaildotcom] 09:30, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Contents 1 Athabaskan/Athabascan? 2 Texas? 3 moved from Na-Dené languages 4 list too long? 4.1 simpler list 5 Need better picture 6 Proto-Athabaskan 7 Comparanda 8 Genealogical relationships

[edit] Athabaskan/Athabascan?

Is there any particular reason that this page was created separately from the original Athabaskan page? It seems to me that it should just redirect to the other page, with any additional information incorporated into that page. They are, as far as I can tell, only variant spellings of each other, and so do not warrant separate pages. If you don't want me to change this back to a redirect, let me know soon.

Lambda 18:14, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Texas?

Are there Navajo and Apache in Texas? -- Zoe

there may be. some Apache groups are native to Texas, namely Mescalero and Lipan, and maybe Jicarilla. of course, as is well known, they had been forced elsewhere. Navajos are a little further west, but perhaps some Navajos have left their homelands to settle in Texas territory. — ishwar  (SPEAK) 06:32, 2005 May 20 (UTC)

[edit] moved from Na-Dené languages

probably should incorporate this info into this article

• • • • Ahtna language: 80 speakers, (M. Krauss, 1995)
      • Beaver language
      • Chipewyan language
      • Hän language: 7 or 8 fluent speakers, (M. Krauss, 1995)
      • Holikachuk language: 12 fluent speakers, (M. Krauss, 1995)
      • Koyukon language: 300 speakers (M. Krauss, 1995)
      • Tanaina language: 75 or fewer speakers (M. Krauss, 1997)
      • Lower Tanana language: 30 or fewer speakers (M. Krauss, 1995)
      • Upper Tanana language: 105 or fewer speakers (M. Krauss, 1995)
      • Tolowa language: 5 speakers (SIL, 1977)
    • Southern Athabaskan languages
      • Jicarilla Apache language: 812 speakers, (1990 census)
      • Plains Apache language: 18 speakers, (1990 census)
      • Lipan Apache language: 2 or 3 speakers, (1981 R.W. Young)
      • Mescalero Apache language: 1,521 speakers (1990 census)
      • Chiricahua Apache language: 279 Chiricahua speakers (1990 census)
      • Western Apache language: 12,693 speakers (1990 census)
      • Navajo language: 148,530 speakers, (1990 census)
    • Athabaskan-Californian languages
      • Hupa language: 8 fluent speakers, (James Brook, 1998, NY Times, April 9, p A1, A20)
      • Kato (Mattole-Wailaki) language: 10 fluent speakers(?), (Chafe, 1962)

[edit] list too long?

hi. this list with all dialects/sublangs too long? there is the common problem (here as well as in other families) where dialects have historically been called distinct languages & where distinct languages have been called by the same name. this was my original reason for the inclusion of many dialects. however, it is rather lengthy.

what does someone else think? peace – ishwar  (speak) 19:54, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC)

I'm relatively new to Wikipedia, so this question might look stupid: is it possible to create tree-lists? I mean those with the wrappable branches and subbranches (clicking on the little [+] would unwrap the branch and show the subbranches). If it's not possible here, perhaps we should suggest this feature to the Wiki-developers. What's your opinion? --Pet'usek 12:44, 18 March 2006 (UTC) (Czech Republic)

I dont believe that this is possible yet. Yes, a good suggestion. – ishwar  (speak) 15:21, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] simpler list

at any rate below is the pruned list

[edit] Need better picture

The Athabascan languages were traditionally spoken over a huge area in Canada and Alaska. We need to illustrate this. The current picture, which only shows the southern N. America areas, is woefully inadequate. Can anyone come up with something? — Nowhither 22:51, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Sure, just need more time. Here is the distribution of Athabaskan-Eyak-Tlingit including northern, Pacific, and southern Athabaskan.

I ultimately envision a big picture map of the distribution over the entire continent and 3 more detailed maps showing every individual language in the 3 geographic regions. peace – ishwar  (speak) 05:47, 2005 August 24 (UTC)

That sounds like a great idea. In the mean time, I've replaced the pic on the article page with your more comprehensive pic. — Nowhither 19:06, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Proto-Athabaskan

Is Proto-Athabaskan really reconstructed as having two vowels? Campbell 1997 says that Krauss and Golla 1981, Krauss 1979, and Cook and Rice 1989 reconstruct i, u, e ([æ]), a ([ɔ]), and "reduced vowels" α, ə, and ʊ. --Whimemsz 02:02, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

hi. no, there are 7 vowels as you say. i just havent finished writing it. if you know it, please add. peace – ishwar  (speak) 16:28, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

the vowels are important in the development of tone. it is a bit complicated. a nice book on Athabaskan prosody was published just this year that is useful. i was going to write something one day, but i am sidetracked now. i'll just take out the vowels until then. – ishwar  (speak) 02:09, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Well...I look forward to reading about it when you do! Take care, --Whimemsz 02:17, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comparanda

Having no dictionary of Athabascan languages (nor any other Na-Dene tongues), I cannot do this myself. But could someone possibly make a list of basic vocabulary items (Dolgopolski's 15-, Yakhontov's 35-, Swadesh's 100- or 200-word list) or, at least, give me some information on where I could find an on-line dictionary of any Athabascan language? Thank you very much in advance.

--Pet'usek 12:40, 18 March 2006 (UTC) (Czech Republic)

I dont believe that there is an online dictionary. (I wish there were.) Look up the work of Michael Krauss & Jeff Leer to see reconstructed forms of Proto-Athabascan, Pre-Proto-Athabascan, and Proto-Athabascan-Eyak. (Pre-Proto-Athabascan is an internally reconstructed language intermediate between Proto-Athabascan and Proto-Athabascan-Eyak.) I dont know how developed Proto-Athabascan-Eyak-Tlingit is — you would have to ask Jeff Leer about that. He does has a large database of forms in manuscript form, but I dont know if it is electronic. – ishwar  (speak) 15:26, 29 May 2006 (UTC) (maybe you can ask User:Billposer what he knows).

also look at John Enrico's recent article in Anthro. Ling. & Heinz-Jürgen Pinnow's work. – ishwar  (speak) 20:56, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Genealogical relationships

There should be a brief mention of the (Athabaskan+Eyak), ((Athabaskan+Eyak)+Tlingit), as well as of the controversial ((Athabaskan+Eyak)+Tlingit)(+Haida) link, I think. Let me add a To-Do list to the talk page - anyone can expand the list or remove individual items. --Pet'usek ^{[petrdothrubisatgmaildotcom]} 09:25, 5 February 2008 (UTC)