Talk:Astronomische Nachrichten

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A fact from Astronomische Nachrichten appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 11 October 2007.

This article is based on the text in the German language wikipedia, although it is by no means a direct translation, as I added material likely to be of interest to English language readers. Tham153 02:16, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] PD image

An issue from 1823, the first that year.

I uploaded an old public domain version of the cover at about the same time that the 2006 version was uploaded. So, this is here if we want to use it. It's not as useful as the fair use because the journal doesn't look like this anymore, but it is a free image. --JayHenry 17:50, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Will put that in the history section for sure. Might also try and clean the image up a bit, though the faded brown paper makes it feel very authentic! :-) There should also be something about the language. I think it is currently published in English, but fro the looks of it it was originally published in German, though there are English words on that title page (I think it is a title page, rather than the cover). Carcharoth 17:57, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

I just got an edit conflict with you trying to change it to title page at commons! Speedy gun! And you're quite right, thanks for catching that. --JayHenry 18:01, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

No probs. Thanks for the interwiki. The translation message above was a big clue! :-) Carcharoth 19:06, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Initial stuff and plans

I've done some initial stuff and I hope to track down some important discoveries that it published in its early years. One thing I'm not sure about is the open access thing. If someone could check. It seems to be delayed access, but I'm not sure. The history of publication is also confusing, with the number of issues varying over the years. I hope to be able to add a little bit about that at some point (the publication history should be available all the way through). The exact years when the different companies and organisations published it would be nice as well, but I'm leaving it for today. Carcharoth 19:05, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some useful links

Some useful links to help with expanding the article:

• Google Books image of a page about the journal - from "Around Caspar Wessel and the Geometric Representation of Complex Numbers ... By Jesper Lützen" - some very interesting quotes!
• Biography of one of the early editors
• World War II history
• One of the post-war editors
• Akademie-Verlag taken over by VCH

More to come later. Carcharoth 00:00, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

OK. That's me done for now. I'm useless at doing proper references, so hopefully others will help out (as is already happening). Most of the facts should be Googleable. If not, drop me a note. The more obscure ones are listed above. Lots of the history came from browsing through online issues at the Astrophysics Data System. Carcharoth 03:50, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Strange stuff from translation

"Sponsoring organisations include the Astronomical Calculating Institute of Heidelberg, and the Munich University Library." - removed from article (was from the original translation) until sources found. Carcharoth 03:47, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] important articles

I have started setting up Germen wikisource for the first journal: s:de:Seite:Astronomische_Nachrichten_No_1_Vorwort.png. Please mention any important issues or journal articles that would be beneficial to record. John Vandenberg 09:04, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks for that. Maybe a translation of that first page there (is it an editorial from Schumacher?) would be nice. Or would that be original research? Also, can I check at what point the current publishers would have been able to renew copyright? Also, I don't understand the pre-print and post-print open access bit? Does it mean that you only have to pay if you want the journal itself? As for other important issues, maybe the positronium one? S. Mohorovičić, Astron. Nachr. 253(1934)94 apparently. Let's see if ADS can find that. Right, it is this one here (page 93, not 94 as some sources say), but unfortunately ADS don't have a scanned copy yet. Either no scan yet or the participating libraries don't have copies of Astronomische Nachrichten from this period. For what it is worth, the title is Möglichkeit neuer Elemente und ihre Bedeutung für die Astrophysik (Possibility of new elements and their meaning for astrophysics). I've looked around for another online source, but no luck. Carcharoth 11:19, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

"Vorwort" is preface. This is on the first page of the first issue of 1823. Babel Fish (website) works really well on that page.

   24 elbow makes volume, to which a besondrer title and envelope are delivered subsequently.
   All contributions please I to ADDR-EAT

               Professor Schumacher -- Altona with Hamburg -- Palmaille

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Jayvdb (talk • contribs) 15:09, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

"works really well"? You are joking, right? :-) I get the intention behind all that, but an accurate translation it is not. I wonder what the German-English equivalent of Chinglish is? Also, when translating works from nearly 200 years ago, archaisms and dialect and anachronistic idioms are a problem. For an example of this, admittedly from nearly 400 years ago, see here for an explanation of the phrase "walke Pauls" in Jacobean England. Carcharoth 16:15, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

By well I mean useful for understanding the gist of it, and better than Google Translate. A similar example to the one you point out is s:Balade to Rosemounde which we are trying to make a featured text on Wikisource, but it is being held up because we are not 100% sure what it means in modern English :-) John Vandenberg 00:38, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikisource looks like an interesting place! Do you think they would be interested in that poem by King James I of England? Carcharoth 02:26, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

There is no notability requirement on Wikisource for older works (see s:WS:WWI); the primary requirement is that the work is not copyright. wrt the poem, I have already asked someone there to look into the copyright: s:User talk:Sherurcij#more enm. The problem is distinguishing between transliteration and translation; if it is the latter, the result is that the poem is copyright (published in 2005). John Vandenberg 02:35, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

According to this, an admin on Wikisource is confident that the text on that site is directly from the manuscripts. So, feel free to get starting uploading them. Ask me any questions you have on my Wikisource talk page. John Vandenberg 03:58, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Of the 195 articles in volume 1 of 1823, according to ADS they are all in German except for four Latin [1][2][3][4], four French[5][6][7][8] and one English[9]. However, the English article doesnt appear to be English, but the one French article that I selected from that list is in French. Im downloading all 50M of the first volume to double check, as I would love to see some English from the first volume. John Vandenberg 15:31, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

In 1824 I have found a 7 page article about Charles Babbages new machine. More info here. I'll put this on the English Wikisource tomorrow. John Vandenberg 15:44, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Wonderful! I hope to do some more work on the article this weekend, after which I will try my best to move on to the next week's collaboration! Carcharoth 17:45, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I have uploaded s:On Mr. Babbage's new machine for calculating and printing mathematical and astronomical tables. It may need a little proof reading, but I am most concerned about whether the formula are accurate. John Vandenberg 18:38, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More sources (German)

I've found some good German sources, but I don't really know enough German to use them.

• This and this.

Can anyone help? Carcharoth 11:45, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

again for good measure, Babelfish translates these pretty well. John Vandenberg 15:13, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

A word of caution: Babelfish sometimes over-translates things. For example, Otto von Bismarck might become Otto from Bismarck, and Wilhelm Gottfried might become William Gottfried, so make sure you compare the translation with the original. That said, Babelfish is an excellent resource. Ben Hocking ^{(talk|contribs)} 15:30, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Place names in French become "X-on-Seine" instead of "X-sur-Seine". The rule of thumb is to go back to the original for proper nouns and names. Carcharoth 16:17, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Editor obituaries

Adalbert Krueger is here. Carcharoth 22:54, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I have started a stub for Adalbert Krüger and uploaded the obit onto Wikisource at s:Astrophysical Journal/Volume 4/Carl Nicolaus Adalbert Krueger. There are two parts of the obit that need clarification: is "24 Themis" the correct "Themis", and is Friedrich Wilhelm Argelander the "Argelander" referred to? John Vandenberg 02:25, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

What I'm annoyed about is the footnote referring to another obituary in "A. N. 3349". I think that means this journal (Astronomische Nachrichten), but I can't for the life of me work out what 3349 means. It certainly didn't have that many pages. 24 Themis is almost certainly correct, but if there is any doubt it is better not to link, IMO. You do have the right Argelander, as we can see if we switch to the obituary in the Astronomical Journal. Most of these major astronomers got obituaries in the leading astronomy journals, many linked from their Wikipedia articles. Have a look some time - there are some fascinating stories. In this case, it seems the student/assistant got the teacher/master's daughter. Carcharoth 02:53, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I was also wondering what 3349 referred to. I'll now start on uploading Astronomical Journal, vol. 16, iss. 374, p. 112-112 (1896) as that is a more detailed obit. John Vandenberg 04:00, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

There is a five-day limit on DYK (this doesn't sit well with the 7-day collaboration schedule). We started expanding it on 6th October, so I'll put it up there now. Carcharoth 10:32, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Proposed hook:

"Did you know that Astronomische Nachrichten, founded in Denmark in 1821 by the German astronomer Heinrich Christian Schumacher (pictured), was the leading astronomical journal of its time, publishing hundreds of letters from astronomers all over Europe, and is the world's oldest astronomical journal still being published?"

Possibly too long, but we will see how it goes. I'll add in the Schumacher pic as a bonus. Carcharoth 11:00, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

See Template talk:Did you know#Articles created on October 6. Carcharoth 11:30, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] first figures

• Image:Astronomische Nachrichten Volume 1 Issue 7 fig.png is the first figuring appearing in volume 1. It appears at the end of issue 7. John Vandenberg 03:47, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

• Image:Astronomische Nachrichten Volume 1 Issue 14 figs.png - issue 14. John Vandenberg 04:11, 12 October 2007 (UTC)