Talk:Asparukh of Bulgaria

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I reverted the last edit:

At this point in history, 681 AD, there were many peoples, but only three officially recognized, independent, states in all of Europe: The West Roman Empire, The East Roman Empire and Bulgaria.

Reasons:

1. In the mentioned era, there were no states and diplomatic relations in the current meaning of these words. Therefore, it is meaningless to talk about "official recognition", which certainly is a modern term and also a modern diplomatic practice.
2. The Western Roman Empire collapsed in 476 and therefore couldn't exist in 681.

-- Sandius 10:32, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

This is an incorrect wording though the fact is hard to be denied: At that time there were only tribal petty kingdoms, while Bulgaria was created as a nation-state. The recognition (though not in modern sense) is claimed as Asparukh's son, Tervel, was given the title Caesar (кесар/kessar in Bulgarian) by Justinian II as early as 704/5. -- Goldie (tell me) 02:32, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I see. Thanks for the explanation. -- Sandius 12:08, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

What makes the Frankish Kingdom(s) less "officially recognized" than the Bulgarian state in the Early Middle Ages (in fact one could argue the reverse)? What makes it (including all of Gaul and most of Germany) any more of a "petty kingdom" than Asparukh's Bulgaria, which was largely constrained by the Danubian plain? Such criteria are highly subjective, not to mention inaccurate. In the current edit I have tried to remove speculative assertions and stick to the facts. Asparukh's career is interesting and impressive enough as it is, without having to incorporate modern romantic notions or proto-nationalism. Best, Imladjov 19:50, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Goldie, there is only one way to translate the title Caesar in Bulgarian and that is "кесар". Note that it is written in Cyrillic and not in Latin. We Bulgarians only use Cyrillic though several times in our history it has been proposed that we replace it with Latin. Please be aware that the usage of the latter alphabet, when designating Bulgarian spelling, could be easily understood, by the majority of Bulgarians, as an attempt at insulting our national identity and culture. In case you have written "kessar" merely in order to introduce non-Bulgarian speakers with the correct pronunciation, I beg you to put it parentheses -> "...Caesar (Bulgarian: кесар /ke'sar/) by...". Markov 09:44, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

The "severi" link seems to point to something unrelated. Can anybody fix it?

[edit] Northern territories

When establishing his kingdom on the Balkans, Asparoukh was operating from Dobroudja and had control over parts of (if not the whole of) Bessarabia. I don't see this shown on any maps. Does anyone know how much he controlled of these northern territories and for how long? Furthermore, his uncle Kii was supposedly ruling that whole region until the Ukraine. I am not sure where this claim stems from or how probable it is. Still, it indicates that these territories were under the rule of the Dulo klan and Asparoukh may have simply migrated further East to lands that already belonged to him.

[edit] Apud?

What does mean (apud Moscow)? There is no word "apud" in English dictionaries.. Is it typo? Is there a reason to use latin word?

[edit] Grave of Asparuh

The grave of asparuh has been already found! You can refer to information and references given in Russian article of wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.230.12.65 (talk) 11:31, 19 September 2007 (UTC)