Talk:Asian values

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[edit] Intro sentence

Hi, Mihnea, your version is:

Asian values was a concept popular in the 1990s, which argued for a unique set of Asian institutions and political ideologies, involving authoritarian government and free market capitalism (as opposed to the democratic welfare states of the West).

My version is:

Asian values was a concept popular in the 1990s, which argued for a unique set of Asian institutions and political ideologies, involving authoritarian collectivism in the belief that it was superior to Western values of democracy and individualism.

I don't think that your version quite accurately describes the situation. While some Western European states might be more "welfare states" than the East Asian ones, in many ways, the East Asian states were more "welfare states" than the United States. Besides, all the states—Western European, American, and East Asian—all practiced free-market capitalism.

—Lowellian (talk)[[]] 22:24, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)

Countries like Hong Kong, Singapore and even South Korea are arguably more capitalist than the United States. One of the core tenets of the pro-democracy movement in Hong Kong is the introduction of some welfare services, for example.
Also, your own version suffers from the inclusion of terms like "collectivism" and "individualism", which, besides being ambiguous, might be incorrectly used here (many would argue that democracy, with its emphasis on power to the people, is much more "collectivist" than an authoritarian dictatorship, especially when that dictatorship involves one individual holding all the power).
As a compromise, I propose using only "authoritarianism" and "democracy", with no additional qualifiers. -- Mihnea Tudoreanu 13:22, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Congratulations for an article well biased!

This article was obviously written by someone with pro-Western tendencies. The links in particular do not incoperate any references to pro-Asian value writers, but everything for the anti-Asian value ones. I suggest a major revamping of this article.

You want something non-biased? Sounds fine! To be truly NPOV, we should also include the less talked about, but quite common, Asian Values: Corruption, Cronyism, Authoritarianism, and in the case of Malaysia, Gerrymandering and Racism. --Commking 11:34, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

If you have a basis for those allegations, cite them please. I for one do not know of any Asian philosophy that specifically advocates them. I believe you mixed up the words practices with the word values, with the latter differing from the former in the sense that it has a clear-cut source with specific endorsement. Most of those 'values' you assert are nowhere confined to Asia alone, in fact, they are quite universal. It does not take a genius to figure this out and any attempt to claim otherwise by libelling a specific culture as being responsible merely casts the perpetrator as a narrow minded, racist bigot him/herself. I am not surprised you did this as it tends to be quite fashionable to do so where you are from.

Where I am from, racism is illegal. In places like Malaysia, it's incorporated into the constitution. Aside from racism, I don't think those other things are specifically advocated, simply widespread. --Commking 23:51, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Where exactly are you from, that racism is illegal? Highconclave 11:58, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Philippines

So where does the Philippines stand when it comes to "asian values"? I am inclined to believe that it never really took hold in the country because of the development of western style democracy(you can say that it was heavilly manipulated by the USA) in the early 20th century. This should be added, but I'm not gonna do it since this is just speculation on my part and needs references. I just wanted to have the country at least mentioned since it is arguably an exceptional asian country when it comes to "asian value".--Chicbicyclist 07:50, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nationalism and Women

Almost every country within Asia has been significantly affected by nationalism. It would be interesting to think about/focus more on how it is that this links into Asian values. I believe that this also has a very deep and meaningful interconnection with the position of women within such societies (either as moral arbitrators, as well as things as obvious as socially acccepted dress codes and the like). Perhaps a few (measured!) comments based upon the importance of ethnicity within Asian would be instructive.

[edit] Question not metioned?

Can there be a synthesis between the two; western and asian systems of thought (or set of values)?

I would say so as a christian atleast; love your neigbour as you love yourself, it´s an unproven proposeall that there has to to be a clash here between the loyalness to society and the freedom of the individual (and the respect for others integrity) - a freedom with respect and with a sense of responsibility for the whole of society. But this is just empty words - without the ability to bring real love with to other persons (witch I belive drove surtain philosophers to the Asian thought) - but i personally believe that this pure love only can come from God - agape. This agape could however "contamine" us if we pursue a relationship with him.


Just some proverbs here to get you goin':

(Below are my own transelation from a Swedish bible version)

Proverbs (book in the Bible); chapter 28; vers 18:

Without vision (and revalation) the people perissh, delighted - is the one keeping the law. (it's from my memory of the english version of the verse)

[The law is - Gods commands thus both the right thing to do and the loveing thing to do. Respecting integrity - but being uncontent with how the world's caotic and the ofthen unloveing way of the people around us - and to forget the most important thing: DOING THE RIGHT THING YOURSELF (ask God for help - otherwise it atleast impossible for me to motivate myself - it's just not in me. (as said before: the problem is that we people needs gods help with doing the right thing; we just don't have the right amount of motivation; point is all seems to screw it up eventionally - thats why we need help.


Proverbs (book in the Bible); chapter 28; vers 5

Ungodly men can't find out whats the right thing to do, whilst the one that seeks the Lord has insight in everything.

My point with quoteing this is just "pin point that:

The One's that has thinked things out; knows all; created everything; ought to know what the right move is to make; an ought to be able to motivate you; as he has no limits being the source of everything's - being boundless as he seems to bee. (I've personally experienced that, try it out yourself - just asking for help couldn't hurt. So try it out.)


Where Is The Love? by Black Eyed Peas

Album :Elephunk (2003)


People killin', people dyin' Children hurt and you hear them cryin' Can you practice what you preach And would you turn the other cheek

Father, Father, Father help us Send some guidance from above 'Cause people got me, got me questionin' Where is the love (Love)

Where is the love (The love) Where is the love (The love) Where is the love The love, the love

--Sweden 12:10, 09 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Juche?

Any relation to Juche? --IanOsgood 22:48, 16 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Cleanup needed

Article currently has unsourced assertions, weasel statements, and some editorializing. Wikipedia:Citing sources, Wikipedia:Weasel, Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style -- 201.51.252.63 19:42, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Asian Values and merging page with orientalism

This is in reference to the statement that Asian Values are not uniquely asian. These asian values are actualy quite an artificial construct. Refer to Ang and Stratton's Straddling East and West: Singapore's search for a National Identity Creating something as essentialy east or west is part of a process of othering which basically means smearing others with negative qualities that are opposite to the ones that we valorise. One could refer to the Amartya sen article linked to on the page for an elaboration

[edit] Article needs a rewrite

I tried to clean up this article, but it's hopeless given its current structure. The introductory paragraph needs to clarify the larger concept of values common to Asia (especially east Asia), and then go on to describe how the concept has been used in a narrower context of poilitics in some Asian countries. The article needs a rewrite with references, by someone who can be objective. Another plus would be to describe these two meanings of "Asian values" and later have a separate "Criticism" section (rather than all the snide comments and sniping throughout the article). -Exucmember 20:11, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lack of References

The two references are what appear to be a random web page about latin America and a movie review? Why hasn't this page been tagged for deletion?Warren Dew (talk) 05:42, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

The references listed as others may help back the assertion in the article. The concept was pretty popular at the height of the 1990s when East Asian economies were booming.