Talk:Ashur Yousif

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[edit] James Bryce

I had a look at the quotation from James Bryce's book, and I'm almost positive it refers to an Armenian teacher at the Euphrates College and not Ashur Yousif. Xemxi 00:02, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I got this from a website. Do you have any site stating James Bryce was refering to somebody else? Chaldean 00:20, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Ara Sarafian has publisehd a new version of Bryce which includes the names of all the people only identified with a letter (such as Prof. A). There he has an Armenian name. There are other sources which attest to Ashur Yousif's death (but nothing so graphic). Which website does your info come from? Xemxi 08:59, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I saw you reverted back to the text which gives the details on Ashur Yousif's death. Again, please look at the source (James Bryce) which you are quoting. There. it is written that "Prof. A" is an Armenian (his name is even given), so it can not be Ashur Yousif. Unfortunately, I do not read Arabic, so I can't check your source, but obviously the problem is in that text which is misrepresenting Bryce's original work. Also, I changed the language of Ashur Yousif's newspaper to Turkish (Ottoman Turkish actually) because that's the language in which it was written (with Syriac characters though).

I sould add that there are many references to the paper being in Ottoman Turkish. And sorry, I didn't sign the previous post: Xemxi 07:18, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Here's the passage which shows that Prof. A is not Ashur Yousif (from http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/1915/bryce/a09.htm#69):

"Professor A.---Served College 35 years ; representative of the Americans with the Government, Protestant "Askabed," Professor of Turkish and History. Besides previous trouble, arrested May 1st without charge; hair of head, moustache and beard pulled out, in vain effort to secure damaging confessions ; starved and hung by arms for a day and a night, and severely beaten several times ; taken out towards Diyarbekir about June 20th, and murdered in general massacre on the road."

Xemxi 07:23, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

It seems that Chaldean has forgotten what was written here the first time. The passage to be removed states that

"According to documents published by James Bryce in "Treatment of the Armenians in the Ottoman Empire", Ashur was called "Professor A" and has subjected to the hair of his head, moustache and beard was pulled out in a vain effort to secure damaging confessions. He was then starved and hung by his arms for a day and a night, and severely beaten several times. He also had some of his fingernails pulled out, had his eyes dug out and was branded with red-hot irons by the relentless ogres causing him to “lose his reason”."

But I checked the document cited in this passage (James Bryce's account), and when you do, you see that the original states that Professor A. was an Armenian Protestant (it is quoted above). Chaldean's source is an article from a website which incorrectly references Bryce. How can it possibly be a better source than the original written by Bryce? How can he say that is is not certain that Professor A was Armenian? Xemxi was right to correct Chaldean the first time and it is right this time too.Ordtoy (talk) 15:48, 4 March 2008 (UTC)