Talk:Ashida Kim/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Told You So

My post hasn't been up five minutes and it has already been moved to the bottom of the pile where no one will see it. You call that justice and fair play? Ashida Kim

It's in fact the opposite. Since posts here are usually added to the bottom, most people look there for new posts. I moved it to the end to give it more visibility. Look at the dates on the other posts and notice the pattern. --cesarb 2 July 2005 21:59 (UTC)

Con Artist?

Surely it can't be right to describe Ashida Kim as a con-artist?? Aside from being NPOV, it could well be libel? This isn't really on.

--Pete Richardson 11:06, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Well maybe the word con-artist is a little bit too strong. I think Charlatan would be more appropriate; after all he apparently earns his living by writing books about ninja mind control, the use of astral projections in combat etc.
Why don't you do a Google search for Ashida Kim and find out yourself?
He is commonly ridiculed in E-budo's 'Bad Budo' and 'Baffling Budo' sections. See for instance these threads:
His side of the debate surrounding him can be found from his website:
Libel? Hardly. Just debunking of lies.
-- Kevin

Reasons for my recent changes

I hope no one took offense to the rather extensive re-writing I did on this article, but I think you'll find that I laid the issues out in a more impartial and informative manner. I tried to put things as black and white as I could, and hopefully the reader can tell for himself if Ashida can really use magically powers and why he would charge $10,000 for a single challenge. I will admit that I personally find Ashida Kim to be a wackjob, but I am trying to keep the entry in line with Wikipedia's NPOV policy, as well as supply factual information on the man and his activities. I'm new to Wikipedia, so please feel free to point out improvements I can make. I'm still in the process of reading all the guidelines, rules, artcile formatting, social standards, etc. so I know I still have a ways to go.

Aesopian 19:14, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

  • Nice job you did to the article! Must have been hard to remain NPOV about this prankster. Do you think Ashida Kim should be included in List_of_notable_eccentrics (he reminds me of Archimedes Plutonium for some reason) or in Category:Eccentrics? How about starting a List_of_fake_martial_artists with Ashida and Count Dante as its first entries, or would that be too controversial? jni 11:14, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  • Thank you very much. This has been my biggest project on Wikipedia. Everything you recommend sounds good to me, seeing as Ashida Kim is already on the pages cult figure and impostor (which is linked to by the List of notable eccentrics). The main problem I see with a list of fake martial artists is how subjective the terms "martial art" and "martial artist" have become, to were anyone can claim to be a martial artist if they dress up in the ninja suit and run around the woods at night. The current intro to the article Martial arts suffers from this, and must have been written by someone who must take Japanese-rock-garden-jitsu and calls it a "martial art". But maybe I'm biased. In any case, I'm up for everything you proposed, if you want to team up on some stuff. Aesopian 17:33, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Reason for focusing on $10,000 Challenge

As the article is now, it's mostly about the $10,000 Challenge. The reasons for this is that I felt that the main source of POV in the earlier versions was how an original author mentioned the rules of the challenge with general statements that, while true, seemed heavily POV. I laid out the actual rules of the challenge with rigid formality to show that the original author wasn't lying, just not writing NPOV.

There is a lot more to write about than this challenge, such as his books, his publisher problems, his marketing tactics and all the claims he has made about martial arts and ninjitsu. I'll see about getting them fleshed out now that the $10,000 Challenge is laid out with more clarity.

Aesopian 01:46, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)

True Identity and Some Resources

I am debating the inclusion of the following link, but I do think it can be gleaned for some more obscure information about the true identity of Ashida Kim:

I found a couple other sites that could be useful for collecting information:

Sorry if this became a link pile, but I thought these would be useful for anyone else researching the subject. I'll be going through those sites and compiling and cross-checking information.

Aesopian 16:50, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Introduction and history need work

The introduction to the entire article, and the history and summary of his martial arts experience need some work. The history is particularlly hard to piece together or verify since most of it has been written by Ashida Kim himself. Case in point:

Aesopian 18:06, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

$10,000 Challenge

Did I read this right? The challenger has to pay Kim the $10,000? You'd think that if he were so sure of himself, he'd pay $10,000 to anyone who could beat him. Sheesh! — Frecklefoot | Talk 20:03, Aug 12, 2004 (UTC)

Yes, the challenger must pay $10,000 to Ashida Kim, in addition to the $25,000 bond. It is not that the winner will receive $10,000, as everyone supposes. Win or lose, Ashida Kim gets at least $10,000.
Like you pointed out, this seems backassed, and this point catches most people off guard. The author of the Everything2 on Ashida Kim makes this same mistake.
Here is the text of this rule, taken verbatim from Ashida's site:
"Second, as a professional fighter, my fee is $10,000. Which will be paid by the Challenger 30 days before the match. Also, Challenger will pay travel expenses for myself and a party of three to the site of the match and provide food and lodging for the Party for the duration of the event. [1]
Also thanks for checking out the article. I'm still working at it and it's good to know it's getting read.
Aesopian 20:46, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Unverified claims

Ashida Kim claims to hold the following [2]:

  1. 9th Degree Black Belt
  2. Ph.D in Martial Science
  3. B.A. in Psychology

My corresponding questions would be:

  1. Black belt in what?
  2. Does this even exist? If so, is there record of this?
  3. Is there record of this? Issued by what institute?

If anyone has any information on this, please add it to the article or comment on it here.

Aesopian 18:11, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

An issue of style

I'm also having trouble pinning down what martial art he should be listed under. So far, scouring his own site, I have found his claiming to hold belt rank or have experience in several arts, as well as offering books and black belts (the rank and belt itself) on several styles, some of which were most likely invented by himself. Here's a brief list of what I've found so far:

  • Practicing and teaching Mugei-Mumei no Jitsu (which I am pretty sure he made up) [3]
  • Practicing and teaching Kata Dante, the Dance of the Deadly Hands [4]
  • Practicing and teaching Dim Mak [5]
  • Practicing and teaching Karate [6]
  • Claims experience in Judo, Karate, Kung Fu, Wrestling, Dragon Kung Fu, Kuji Kiri, and of course, Ninjitsu [7]

It doesn't help matters that before I worked on this article, this is what was originally written about his style:

"The style of ninjitsu he studied was a style of nijitsu influenced by Chinese martial arts. Koga Hai Lung Ryu. Translated roughly is the Koga Black Dragon. Often refered to as Black Dragon Ryu."

This was probably a reference to the Black Dragon Fighting Society that Kim is a part of, but I couldn't find these mentioned anywhere else, even on Kim's sites, so I removed them. I'm still trying to find out if they even exists, but last I heard was someone saying "Anyone claiming to be teaching the original koga ninjitsu is full of it. At best they could be recreating it."

Wait now, I found mention of Black Dragon Ninjitsu, which is pretty close:

Assuming we can pin down what style he is supposed to be doing, it would follow that we should describe it. For starters, I have found a description of Mugei-Mumei no Jitsu by Ashida Kim on his forum [8]. My favorite line:

"That's why the primary technique of Mugei-Mumei no Jitsu style Ninjitsu is to throw sand in the attacker's eyes and run away."

Aesopian 20:31, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Some justification for the widespread POV on Ashida.

by The Ninja.

Aesopian, The Black Dragon Fighting society in question is the Black Dragon Fighting Society by Count Dante (see my article on Dante). Ashida was falsely posing as the successor to the late Dante and his Black Dragon Fighting Society. His old message board sported the BDFS logo until Bill Aguiar (Dante's true sucessor) looked into things and found out that Kim still uses the name Chris Hunter at least for legal matters and papers. Also, Kim was selling illegal bootleg copies of Count Dante's Worlds Deadliest fighting secrets (that famous booklet you could order from those old Count Dante comic book ads). Furthermore, Kim claims that knew Dante and trained under him during the riots at the 1968 Chicago Democratic Conventions. Aguiar (who has known Dante since about 1967), says that Kim and Dante never met. As a result of all of this, Aguiar's lawyer sent cease and desist orders to Kim/Hunter for him to stop selling illegal copies of Dante's booklet and to remove all references to the Black Dragon Fighting Society from the Ashida page. For a while, Ashida's old message board sported the same Black Dragon logo in reverse but the word "Fighting" replaced with "Ninja". Hence, it was now the Black Dragon Ninja Society. There is a German website for that and the Black Dragon Ninja Society of Germany is apparently connected with Kim. According to Kim, there's also branches in South Africa and Australia. I will try to find the link to a famous article by "Budo Quackwatch" guru M.C. Busman. Hope all this helps. Yours, The Ninja.

p.s: It is hard to be NPOV with guys like Ashida. I had the same problem with my article on Count Dante. Problem is, Ashida, if you've ever seen his ramblings on his own message board (let alone the fact that he spends far too much time on his own forum), he doesn't paint a good picture of himself as a role model. I go probably go on about some of the crap he's pulled there (such as urging the people on his forum to call up the publisher's whom he says are cheating him out of royalties and harass them with crank calls saying "Give Ashida Kim his money"! I even remember a cryptic post by him several years ago around Christmas. "Wherever you are, whichever one you're near, DO YOUR WORST!" You might remember some of this stuff.). He probably deserves much of the ridicule he gets. Not being a registered member, it's probably not my place to say this but, all things considered, you did a pretty good job with all the stuff we know about this guy. August 12,2004

Thank you for the feedback and additional data. I am very grateful any comments or help on this article, since this is my first real contribution to Wikipedia. I will see about working your information into the article, unless you want to do so yourself.
I have been refering to the Count Dante article as an example of a similar and related potentially POV subject that I felt was handled in a very NPOV manner. Very good work. If you don't mind, I ask that you register a username so I can work and coordinate with you some more on this article. I've been trying to find someone to help me on it, but I have been hesitant to ask for help on any forums like Bullshido since I don't see them having the knack for NPOV that would be needed, to say the least. I am actually relatively new to the subject, and as you seem to have experience with this, I would really appreciate your help on this.
As an aside, you'll probably find it intesting to note that the articles on impostor and cult figure link to Ashida Kim, as well as the former linking to Count Dante.
Aesopian 01:32, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Erotic Material

I should also mention I have been putting off writing about his erotic martial arts books. I don't know if I have the willpower to write about these with NPOV. You can find them here:

Aesopian 15:35, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Move to Christopher Hunter

Would anyone object that this page be moved to Christopher Hunter, the real name of Ashida Kim? [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk)]] 19:22, Aug 16, 2004 (UTC)

I think it would be best left as Ashida Kim, since that is the most widely known and referenced name, and the one that appears as the author of the majority of the books. This is similar to the article on Count Dante. Or for a more famous example, see John Wayne, whose real name is Marion Michael Morrison. A redirect from Christopher Hunter to Ashida Kim might be a better choice, if anything.
The matter of his identity is also up for debate, at least in his own mind. Ashida Kim claims that he isn't really Christopher Hunter on his message boards:
Aesopian 19:45, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)


Ashida trips himself up a lot

Aesopian, You're very much welcome for the extra Kim info. And thanks for your feedback on my Dante Article. I guess the major difficulty in Dante was that he's been dead almost 30 years and to many, it seems that Aguiar and company grudgingly admit that a lot of what Dante said had to be bunk, but they retain it out of respect for his memory (such as him being a Guerilla officer in one of Castro's campaigns in Sierra Maestra during the 1950s). Not being sure of this, I decided to just supply the link to his website and for the Wiki article, stick to mostly sources written about him from Neutral sources such as Black Belt Mag and writer Mas Ayoob. Funny thing is, I was reluctant to include Keehan's arson/dynamite arrest but since it was reported in Black Belt, it probably was suitable for NPOV. I have a book called Deadly Grip of the Ninja by Ashida and in it's introduction, it says that Christopher Hunter (the guy in the photos in that book) is Ashida's student. We are supposedly led to believe that the masked guy in the book is Ashida as this same guy (with trademark ski-mask) keeps making appearances in his Ninja books. The free e-book on his site has unmasked pictures of Chris Hunter too but without the intro disclaimer.But he does end the book with a cryptic statement about "some of you readers might think you know the face behind this mask but..." before going off another tangent. Also, according to MC Busman's article, Ashida started admitting that he's appeared unmasked in several books around the same time several people including Bill Aguiar traced the billing for Ashida's website to one Chris Hunter in Florida. Whether or not this is meant as admission of guilt is still a mystery. I've been considering registering. This way I can add pics to the Dante, especially his famous Deadliest Man Alive ad and hopefully the Kim articles I have a few with him unmasked from a seminar that he apparently went to in Germany. Looks like an older version of the 70s/80s Chris Hunter more or less. I'll be getting back to you as soon as I get back home permanently in a week or so. The Ninja.

MC Busman link

Removed the dead M.C. Busman article link. If someone can find a working link to the article, feel free to post it. --MikeJ9919 18:03, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Re: Ashida Kim Facts

Re: Ashida Kim Facts

Ashida Kim does indeed have chapters in Australia and South Africa. See http://www.blackdragon.co.za/history.htm

I have seen footage of the training in South Africa and they seem to take things quite seriously over there. One of the other names associated with the South Africa chapter is Capt. Ben Mangels, a well known Military Close Quarter Combat instructor - http://schoolofselfdefence.com/no-nonsense-self-defence.htm

I have also met Ashida Kim and seen him demonstrate martial arts such as Kata Dante, baguazhang, xing yi and taijiquan. I never saw him demonstrate anything that looked like Bujinkan Ninjutsu, however his Chinese martial arts were quite good.

Also a friend of mine spied his passport one time and the name on it wasn't Christopher Hunter, make of this what you will.

I have chatted with Kim on a range of subjects and found him to have quite good knowledge on a variety of topics including qigong, daoism, tibetan esoterica, western occultism and eastern culture. I have also seen him perform sleight of hand magic, juggle and play guitar. I would liken Kim more to the sideshow performers of yester-year than to a traditional martial artist. To understand Ashida Kim, read Leung Tings "Skills of the Vagabonds"and "Behind the Incredibles".

Z.

Sorry

I wasn't aware of an edit war. Just noticed articles revert war. Sorry. Cat chi? 2 July 2005 17:24 (UTC)

Recent wholesale changes.

Ashida Kim is a controversial character with a long history of notable interactions with others in the Western martial arts community. To blank the article and most of the talk page in order to introduce a worshipful tone as was recently done isn't going to stand. See Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not for more information. Fire Star 2 July 2005 17:24 (UTC)

Assuming good failth, this could be a biographical article maybe? People writing several books and getting them published is not notable? Cat chi? 2 July 2005 17:29 (UTC)
It could be more biographical, to be sure. We don't want it to be worshipful. Kim is a controversial teacher, and that controversy is what most people will be familiar with. I have requested page protection until we can get our new editor to discuss things, and will put this on the administrator's Wikipedia:3RR noticeboard if the reversions continue. Also, there was a bug in the system which is why my "one more time" edit was posted thrice. Fire Star 2 July 2005 17:58 (UTC)

Trolls At Work

So, for a whole year you have been coming here to slander and libel me. You lot have made a cottage industry of beating up on me anonymously, hiding behind your computers and pretending like you are on some noble mission to clean up the martial arts. Fact is you are a bunch of impotent children with nothing better to do that try and run down your betters. Would be honored to discuss this dispute with ANY admistrator of this website. But, there is no way to contact them. Can't believe any resonable person would let this abuse go on. None of these people have ever met me. They deal in lies, half truths and innuendoes. They are professional trolls who have no purpose in life but to stir up trouble. Very little of what they say is true and I am the only one who knows which is what because I am the one who has been there and back again. I never saw any of these clowns in any of the classes I took or taught. The only time any of them have even bought a book is so they can find fault with it. They delight in "setting us up" with phony memberships and then claiming I don't check the credentials of those who want to join the International Black Dragon Fighting Society headquartered in South Africa. Even though Grandmaster Aguiar has been tricked into attacking me by these trolls, (They write insulting him, pretending to be me, and vice versa.) I have always acknowledged him as the Supreme Grandmaster for the US and Canada. Even though I have been threatened with being banned for trying to come here and clear my name, no doubt this post will be shortly deleted because there is no justice to be had here. It has always been thus, and no matter what they do, I will persevere on regardless. Because the world is changing and becoming a better palce. And it is just too nice a 4th of July weekend to let these morons bring it down. I remain, Ashida Kim

It's quite easy to contact an administrator; in fact, there are over 500 of them (I myself am one of them). See Wikipedia:Administrators for more information.
There is a rule on Wikipedia to block anyone who reverts the same page more than 3 times on 24 hours, known as the Wikipedia:Three-revert rule. Its intent is to avoid situations where both sides keep reverting to their prefered version. It's called an "electric fence", because it does not depend in any way on the content of the article (unless it's simple vandalism, which is not the case here). You would not have been blocked for "trying to come here clear your name", you would just be temporarily blocked for 24 hours as a "cool off period". It's almost automatic, and not one bit personal.
The standard way to act when there is a content dispute is to talk about it on the discussion page (like you have just done). It would be very helpful if you could point with specificity the problems on the article and what should be done about them.
--cesarb 2 July 2005 21:55 (UTC)
Dear User:Ashida Kim, if I may, allow me to agree with what cesarb has said above. I myself am also a Wikipedia administrator, and as such have been careful not to add any content to the article during this dispute. I have mostly been concerned with preserving it so that we may have a meaningful discussion of its contents, and have been contacting you in aid of such discussions. I am not averse to the article being changed, but it should be changed deliberately in a way that follows Wikipedia's policy of neutral point of view, as if it were an article in an encyclopaedia, not an advert in the back of Black Belt magazine. It may interest you to know, in the interest of fairness, that the Bullshido people have had disagreements with our policies in the past. Please see: Bullshido VfD log listing # 1.60 that will provide you with links to some of the discussions we have had with them. So, as mentioned above, this isn't personal, no one is here to slander Ashida Kim, we just want a balanced and informative article. Fire Star 2 July 2005 23:52 (UTC)

Could you please explain how in this post you claim to be Ashida Kim (I'm not saying you aren't), but on an earlier post you claim to be Brian Majanovic, a 36 year old follower of Ashida Kim. Howabout1 Talk to me! July 3, 2005 01:49 (UTC)

It looks like the part signed Brian Majanovic is a quote from someone else. It does not look inconsistent to me (notice every message signed Brian Majanovic is the exact same message, while the ones signed Ashida Kim vary). --cesarb 3 July 2005 14:14 (UTC)
Sorry, I didn't know they were quotes. Howabout1 Talk to me! July 3, 2005 16:37 (UTC)

Also, when your post was moved to the bottom, that was so people would read it. All posts on wikipedia are put on the bottom. Howabout1 Talk to me! July 3, 2005 01:51 (UTC)

More Baloney

Hey Aesop! Pretty brave and bold publishing this bunch of gossip from Bullshido. Don't recall you ever interviewing ME for this "unbiased" article. You are just another troll violating your own "no personal attacks" policy. That's okay, brother. 'Cause your opinion don't mean squat to me. Here's a letter that came in this week. I get am honored to receive a few dozen of these every year. You won't read it, because you guys never do. You just delete my posts and keep lying about me. One day this will all come back to haunt you, my petty little turd-napper. The world is changing, becoming a better place, and little tin gods like you are fading away. It's too nice a day to let your stupidity clutter it up. So just have a look at this, and know that for every one at Bullshido, I have a hundred like this. And, none of them are listening to you, LOL Ashida Kim Grand-Master Kim.

Thank you, Sir. I owe you my gratitude!

Please allow me to explain and I promise I will keep it short so as not to bore you.

When I was a child, I was raised in a very destructive home. My parents were abusive and negative. When I was eleven years old I came across your publications Secrets of the Ninja and Secrets of Invisibility. I studied them diligently and practiced daily without fail. Meditation, stealth, self control and focus. You taught me about the perceived image projected by "ego" and showed me how to find my True Self. You taught me to breathe properly so as to tap into my Chi energy. You taught me to control the mind and body like a machine. You gave me an identity; No name. You taught me everything; No art. From your teachings I grew strong and intelligent. When I had a question growing up I thought, "What would Master Kim expect of a student?" I realized that the Ninja is an intelligent dynamic person who can adapt to any situation and use it to their advantage. My life was difficult and sad, but you taught me to see the strength in this situation. I turned weakness into strength and adapted to suit my needs. Never once did I turn to any type of "vice" to control my "self" in my formative years. (no drugs, no alcohol, etc.) I turned to your teachings to guide me through these years of challenges. I grew up strong and intelligent and to this day I still practice what you have taught me. Without your teachings, your openness to share this secret knowledge, I would surely have suffered a far worse fate. My brother died by his own hand because he could not control his thoughts and they crushed him emotionally.

Today, your teachings still guide me. Still learning, still practicing, still mystified by these powerful yet simple teachings; I don't know just how to say Thank You.

No matter what I say or write, it cannot convey the depth of my Respect for you, my Gratitude to you, and the Honor of learning from your teachings. You have guided me where others abandoned me.

I remain humbly; your ghost student. You will always be to me, my hidden Master. (Thank you.)

Gratefully,

Brian Majanovic 36 years old

See how you delete what I posted from Brian and then accuse me of fabricating it? What a bunch of pigs you are, LOL See, this is exactly what you want, to drag me into a flame war so you can get the attention you are so desperate for. In a battle of wits, you are unarmed. You are pitiful, LOL Please note I put this at the bottom. But it won't last because I am winning.

Well, I believe the first time you posted it it was removed because at the same time you had removed all the other messages; when reverting your removal of the other messages, your addition was reverted too. Since now it's not the case, your message here will probably stay. --cesarb 3 July 2005 14:20 (UTC)
Correct. The entire talkpage in question had been blanked by User:Ashida Kim. For User:Ashida Kim's benefit, the message that replaced it wasn't exactly deleted, however, it was still available in the talk page history, and it still exists. Technically, it was just moved. Fire Star 3 July 2005 15:20 (UTC)

Which does not forgive Howabout! of ACCUSING ME of making it up. See, your minds are closed, and none of you dare to contact me privately because you are afraid I'll jump through the screen and strangle you. THIS is what you want, me coming here to argue with you all the time. Troll City, LOL You admit you never interviewed me for this "unbiased" article? So you insult me and when I object to it you play silly ass lawyer games splitting hairs about why thus and so was deleted. DEAL WITH THE PROBLEM! Ashida Kim

Question Hello, User:Ashida Kim! I noticed the message you dropped me at my talk page, and I'm confused. Are you saying the content of the article Ashida Kim is incorrect? If so, you will need to provide sources/references for your claims. In the meanwhile, you can put up either a "NPOV" tag or a "The factual accuracy is disputed..." tag until the matter is resolved. However, in situations like this when the content is disputed, you must come up with reliable sources that the information contained is wrong, incorrect, or misleading. Finally, please do refrain from personal attacks and insults. We do not do that at Wikipedia. Thank you very much! Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 3 July 2005 15:04 (UTC)

[edit] Stll ducking the issue I am not going to play any more silly run around the maze typing in my complaint that will never be viewed or acted on by your staff. This is just more feldercarb and stalling. "Cite my sources...?" I AM the source Jack!Besides for years the trolls at Bullshido said I couldnt fight, so Matt Breyer put up one of my fights on his site. What happened? They didn't beleive it was me. For years they said that I wasn't a member of the BDFS so I finally sent them a copy of my ID Card. What did they say? "Oh that one doesn't count because it is just one you can get through the mail." EVERYONE GOT THEM IN THE MAIL! So, you see, my friend, the game is rigged! All I'm asking for is a fair shake and all I get is more BS! I ask again that we settle this by e-mail and stop making me come here to debate this publically BECAUSE THAT IS JUST A TROLL GAME!

Ashida Kim

Once again, my changes are deleted. All I was trying to do was respond to the lies. But, you won't even allow that. Didn't call any names. Didn't delete the whole thing and replace it. Didn't attack anyone personally. Still, all I am allowed to do is come here and whine. And you say you aren't trolls? What a bunch of hypocrites, LOL

Ashida Kim

Wikipedia articles are not forums for personal responses. Quotes must be in some reasonable way independently verifiable.
Your overall hostility and general lack of civility is unbecoming of a ninja. Or anyone else, for that matter. -- Cyrius|✎ 3 July 2005 16:51 (UTC)
The historical ninja, at least, murdered people in cold blood for money, usually while they slept. How honourable is that? Fire Star 3 July 2005 17:35 (UTC)

Your comments do not contribute to the resolution of this problem, so I will just ignore you as a newbie sticking his face in to pile on. What will satisfy you? A copy of my birth certificate? Of course not, just like the other trolls no amount of proof is sufficient. You are overlooking the issue AGAIN! No matter what my name is, I am still the same person. I studied martial arts and have tried to share what I learned with others. But, all you high and mighty types see fit to JUDGE everything. To you BJJ and MMA are the only valid styles. I've had my share of black eyes and loose teeth and sore shins, and I've given a few out as well. But, that doesn't qualify me. I've got certificates from many schools and pictures and letters, but when I posted just one, nobody believed it was real. I keep asking one of you people to resolve this privately. But, you just keep stretching out this thread instead. The issue is that you wrote this trash and bash piece on me without even notifying or consulting me. Now you want me to prove that I exist? 'Zat "polite" enough for ya? Got a little attention for yourself, did you? How proud you must be, LOL

Ashida Kim

Don't edit others' user pages

Please don't edit others' user pages. To leave messages for others, you may use their associated talk page. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me. Thanks! — Knowledge Seeker দ 3 July 2005 17:31 (UTC)I somehow inadvertantly posted this to Talk:Ashida Kim instead of User talk:Ashida Kim. I will copy the message there. — Knowledge Seeker দ 4 July 2005 02:55 (UTC)

Okay let's see, so far I can't change your dirt page on me; I can't post testimonials about myself; I can edit other pages (even though your stated policy is that everyone can edit); I can't get anyone of you to deal with this privately; so all you allow me to do is keep draggng out this useless line of crap. Clicked on your link, all it did was lock up my computer three times. Just another dirty trick. You say you are an administrator? Only got one question; WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO RESOLVE THIS CONFLICT? You clowns keep saying I must "cite my sources" but the ONLY SOURCE ANY OF YOU CITE IS BULLSHIDO. And they are all liars.

Ashida Kim

Greetings. You have a conflict with the article, most of the rest of us don't. Also, we usually don't deal with these things privately. You are going to have to build a public consensus of other editors in order to have your version stick. In order to build consensus, it would probably help if you stopped insulting everyone you deal with here. It isn't too late, we are actually pretty friendly and forgiving, even with ninjas! FWIW, the Bullshido sources, a lot of them (especially the $10,000 challenge) were sourced directly from Kim's website as far as I can tell. Can the article be improved? Sure. But you have to help, not threaten. You can't beat people up here if you disagree with them. That means the burden of proof is on you and it has to be verifiable, not hearsay. You do have an option for publishing your version of events without interference, however. On your user page. You may pretty much put anything you want on there (as long as it isn't illegal). Fire Star 3 July 2005 18:17 (UTC)

Do Unto Others

Let me ask you this- would any of you allow someone to publish a bunch of lies about you? How 'bout if I take all your names and make up stories about each of you like Bullshido has done about me? Wouldn't be very funny then, would it? Take ol' Aesop, for example. The "real" one told fables. Perhaps this fool thinks he is being clever by stealing the name of a sage and telling tales of his own. I have NEVER gone to anyone else's site and run them down. But, you see I am capable of it, and more. I tell all my people not to trash other people as well. The 13th Commandment- "Thou shalt not speak ill of a fellow Black Belt." And, "If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all." Thumper to Bambi in the movie of the same name. Obviously, your mothers never taught you any respect for yourself or others. If she had, you would not publish an article about a man you don't even know without even talking to him and then REFUSE to take it down when he catches you gossiping about him. You should be ashamed of yourselves. And yet you have the audacity to say I'm not being very Ninja-like because I am pissed off at being pissed on. How would YOU react? Not nearly so well, I think. It is obvious who is the superior man here. And, it ain't you guys, LOL I have, in a single day, demonstrated all the petty tricks you use to trash and bash others. That's why this post won't be up for ten minutes. None of you can stand the truth. You punks tell the high mucky-muck to e-mail me. I want to talk to the big boss and show him how well you run his store for him.

Ashida Kim

Okay

Fine! Is this where you want me to talk to you, then here it is. No doubt I am breaking yet another of your stupid rules. You say I must build a consensus? How can I do that when all I get from any of you is more baloney? You refuse to talk to me privately. You refuse to let me post responses to the charges (they were deleted in five minutes), and now you move the goalposts again by saying I must kiss the behinds of several admin guys to build a consensus? Absurd! NO SANE PERSON WOULD PUBLISH AN "UNBIASED" ARTICLE ABOUT A MAN WITHOUT EVEN INTERVIEWING HIM! Journalism 101. TAKE IT DOWN!

Ashida Kim

You're darn right I refuse to talk to you privately. While you seem to be a little more reasonable lately, some of your interactions here have been exercises in attempted intimidation: "Same goes for you Fire-Star. You're real brave here where you can delete my posts. Got the cajones to e-mail me at dojopress@aol.com?" It is easy to see that as an implied threat. Why should I discuss anything privately with someone who represents themselves with the language of a bully? So, even if you don't choose to see it, you have a credibility problem right there. You don't have to kiss anyone's behind, but you do have to be reasonable. On a less personal note, it is fine for you to say that our consensus policy is absurd, but you won't be allowed to participate meaningfully until you can follow it. You can either work with the editors here or against them and the only way you are going to get anyone to take you seriously is for you to stop with the threats, accusations and insults. As I said, we are an easy-going bunch generally and willing to start over and work with someone who has been abrasive and insulting in the past if they want to. To that end, if you are interested in addressing the article, you can start by listing your objections one by one to the article here on the talk page so that all of us may address them. If you don't, we can't help you. You also have to realise that they will be openly discussed, and some of them may be dismissed. Especially if they aren't supported by evidence any one of us can verify. Food for thought? Fire Star 3 July 2005 21:25 (UTC)


I wanted to do this privately BECAUSE otherwise it is just a troll thread. You piss in my face and then accuse me of having an attitude when I object to it. So, BEFORE I play your game and list my objections to this CHANGED post from when I first came here yesterday, that one had a lot more crapola on it, let me ask you this- WHY IS IT SO IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO KEEP THIS PAGE UP, UNLESS IT IS YOUR INTENT TO DISCREDIT ME? In this age of political correctness, the very least you could do when you find you have offended someone is stop doing it. I don't enjoy coming her AT ALL! Not to play games with you, not even to call you names. This is not fun for me, brother.

Specifically this "encyclopedia article..."

Ashida Kim is the pseudonym of self-proclaimed ninja Radford William Davis, best known for his books on ninjitsu and martial arts published during the 1970s and 1980s. Other pseudonyms include Christopher Hunter. ASHIDA KIM REPLIES: When I contribute to Fox News I am known as Eric Blair. You might look for my name in the credits sometime. Is it not Ninjitsu to have more than one "cover identity?" I am known by many names in many places. This is the one I have chosen. I can show you my birth certificate, but that doesn't say Ashida Kim on it because Ashida is a "nickname" it means "big foot" I earned it because I did more kicking than most of the other people in Nix Cairnley's Okinawan Shotokan Class at Auburn University in 1968. Kim, in spite of all you pepole who say no Japanese is named Kim and only Koreans can be named that, is short for Kimitake, a well known and respected Samurai name of the 13th century that is extinct; wiped out in the Sword Hunt. But, just like when you all said I couldn't fight and Matt Breyer posted one of my matches, you REFUSED to believe it was me fighting. Same when Bullshido said I wasn't a member of the BDFS. So, I showed them my ID Card signed by Count Dante and they REFUSED believe that as well. No amount of proof is sufficient for a troll or a Democrapic commitee, LOL

Leader of the Black Dragon Society form of Koga Ryu Ninjitsu. Teaches forms such as Iron body, stealth, and Taijitsu. Due to his claims of practicing and teaching supernatural and magical abilities such as invisibility, telepathic mind control and death touches, as well as offering mail-order black belt programs in a belt factory fashion [1] ASHIDA KIM REPLIES: I never claimed any supernatural abilities, as you would know if you had read any of my books. I preach peace and harmony and non-violence in every one. Instead, what I do is "de-mystify" these things by explaining what simple magic tricks they are. If you poke a guy in the eye and he can no longer see you, are you not "invisible?" Lots of people talk about Dim Mak, Erle Montaigue is a great example. What my book on the subject offers is the simple fact that all of the major nerve bundles, blood vessles and lymph nodes are generally in the same areas so a powerful blow to this or that target will likely have an effect on each of these systems like so. Simple and clinical, no mystery. As for mail order black belts, remember that Bullshido had a guy named Chad Sloman write in for a membership claiming all sorts of BJJ and MMA experince with a variety of instructors wanting a black belt in Valetudo. There are no belts in Valetudo, so we certified him as an "expert." Bullshido twisted this to mean mail order black belt, whiich, incidentally , is still contingent on him returning part of the membership handbook and whatever other credentials he wishes to have on record. He has not done so. Lastly, I NEVER use the term "Taijitsu" that is strictly an invention of the bogus Stephen Hayes school.

Ashida Kim is regarded as a fraud by many in the field of martial arts. ASHIDA KIM REPLIES: And who are these "many?" No names are cited here. Only the liars from Bullshido. You keep telling me to cite sources, but you won't do it yourself.

How's that for a start?

In an effort to quiet criticism and suppress challenges, Ashida Kim has established rules for a $10,000 Challenge for anyone wishing to test his skill. Many consider these rules to be in Ashida Kim's favor as they place significant financial and legal stress on the challenger, who is required to pay $10,000 to Ashida Kim, as well as post a $25,000 bond, and cover all expenses of the event. Several individuals have come forward to challenge him to this match, and presented evidence of the money, to which Ashida Kim has backed down and then claimed it was a publicity stunt. The somewhat dubious rules of the challenge itself seem to be designed as roadblocks to efforts to require Ashida Kim to demonstrate genuine proof of the abilities he professes to teach in his publications. ASHIDA KIM REPLIES: Once again you only read what you want to hear. The page clearly says this is my RESPONSE to the many challenges I receive. According to every tradition of dueling, as the challenged party, it is MY PERROGATIVE to set the conditions of the match. I set the bar high because if I didn't, I'd be punching out a punk every week for free. Every time these liars at Bullshido PRETEND to put up the money, all they gotta do is send it in. But they never do. Standing in front of a pile of fake money don't prove nothing. You people seem to think getting in the ring is a game. It is serious business. If I get in I want to be paid. Any of you punks want to fight for free? Didn't think so, LOL BUT, Ninjitsu is not about fighting in the ring with rules, even though I have done it. Ninjitsu is about simple self defense. Making yourself invisible by cheating, by using the dirty trick of throwing sand in the enemy's eyes so you can run away. That is about as non-violent and peaceable as you can get, not enough to satisfy you bunch of bullies, eh?

Now the point of all of this is that nothing I am doing or have done is illegal. BUT, by writing it up as you have in your "style" you imply that I am a fake and a fraud, and yet not one of you has even spoken to me before I came here to defend myself against your unprovoked attack. Nor are any of you or the cretins at Bullshido qualified to judge anyone's martial arts skills. Nor is it your place to do so. There are people right now selling "Name a Star after your girlfriend" certificates. They don't own the stars. You can't go there and visit your "property." You own NOTHING! But, are you attacking them? No! Just me. And why? Because you are so jealous of what I have done that it burns in your gut like a fire. All criticism is jealousy disguised, simple as that.

So! What does your consensus say now? Isn't simple logic enough to convince you that you are trolls? Don't you think that the spammers over at Bullshido are eating this up? Making me fight with you so they can push their lies some more? You know, a few years ago they were telling people that I was dead and that they could find my obituary at obit.com Does that sound like the work of honorable men? But, you still choose to believe the lies because your mind is closed. I notice ol' Aesop hasn't chimed in after I bit his head off. Whatssamatta, Bud? Got caught being a gossip? I know you clowns are checking here every ten minutes to see what I've put up next so you can delete it. Jumped through a bunch of your silly hoops now, but I don't hear any of you offering any compromise from your side yet! Go ahead, move the goalposts again. You are good at cheating and stalling, that is what makes you trolls, LOL

Ashida Kim

Well now we're getting somewhere. While I see that you are still as charming as ever, I will do a rewrite to address your concerns, and place it here first to see what you and other people think. First off, though, we can remove the assertion that "many people" consider Kim a "fraud" if that is alright. Fire Star 4 July 2005 01:45 (UTC)
I have made a few Wikipedia:NPOV changes to the article. Comments? Fire Star 4 July 2005 01:53 (UTC)

Too much focus on the challenge

The section with the rules of the challenge is a whole half of the article, and it's redundant with the second external link. It probably needs some trimming. --cesarb 4 July 2005 02:01 (UTC)

Yeah, especially if it is redundant. Fire Star 4 July 2005 02:01 (UTC)

Thank You

I appreciate these changes. At last you are showing some class. How about a little biographical data from the featured author page? That gives some of my martial arts exerience history to counter the claims that I never studied anything. Here is the link, http://dojopress.com/msg1.html Use what you think is appropriate. At least it is all true. But, I wouldn't want you to use the whole thing. As you have said, "too worshipful." You will, however, notice that there is no bragging on this page. No boasting of how many men I have beaten up, no claim of rank. I trust that at least some of it will be satisfactory. Have a Happy 4th!

Ashida Kim

OK. I'll look into it later tonight. While we do have a good amount of rules and policies, it isn't hard to get them to work towards fairness. A warning: others may wade in and try to change things back. Stay patient even if provoked. I'll keep an eye out. Fire Star 4 July 2005 02:34 (UTC)

Here Is Why Ninja Hide

from James Bennett, Australia Dear Terou (Ashida)

I had a bit of a funny enquiry the other day from a guy called Bradley.. LeTerian the Godfist asia_i@hotmail.com // I have been speaking to this guy for a couple of years (on the odd occassion) he was originally introduced to me by Daniel... the guy is in the Military and does some serious grappling... he is a pretty big Black fellow.. who up to and including now has always been friendly and polite./..

Anyway i'm getting to the rub.. He asked me if I know your "real name" - he reckoned he was pretty sure you lived with a friend of your's in Florida... He reckoned he wanted to catch up with you and talk to you, as he believes you are a pretender and are full of lies...

Me I said I didnt know all that much about you, other than you have always been friendly and never any bother to me or anyone else for that matter. and politely told him to think about his actions, as he sounded a little bit over the top.. and stalking someone to have a verbal discussion could be seen as aggressive behaviour.. .. anyway I ended the conversation nicely as always ...

I told him if I knew I wouldnt tell him,, just like he wouldnt want me giving his details out... But I thought you should know everything you can, because he sounded serious about catchin' up with you... which I think is a little bit fucked up... cause if someone came around my place wanting to defrock me it wouldnt be very pleasant... because I wouldnt be standing about jaw-jackin.. and taking any sort of abuse from some disgruntled fan...

Apparently he is Living in Florida. He has always said he is in the Military and he has served in Germany for some time.. .. and goes down to train with some guy who lives in Florida - that was on some Martial Arts reality show..

From what he has said, he is married with 2 kids.. .

He reckons he has spoken to you many times and said he even offered to fight for you once,, but you upset him or some such tripe...

Hope i'm not alarming you,, but thought you really ought to know.,,, as this guy really has a stick up his bum about you... I told him you were a friend of mine and he should drop it,,, but I dont think he will... .

[You see, guys? I know nothing of this clown. I have never met him. I couldn't possibly have done anything to him personally. I haven't even been to Australia for ten years. But, his mind has been so poisoned by the propaganda at Bullshido and what was here, that he feels compelled to seek me out and fight me. As I said above, Ninjitsu is not about fighting. It is about self defense, and the best self defense is not being there. Thank you for the changes you have made. Just know that the only "controversy" about me is fabricated and disengenuous at best and malicious and dangerous at worst. A little common courtesy and respect go a long way.

I remain,

Ashida Kim]

And here is today's follow-up from James...

Terou..

No worries,, just thought I better tell you... he rabbited on how he knew you lived with a friend of yours and all about your real name etc-- etc... and that he tracked you down blah blah blah... im in aggreance with you, if they really want to find someone you can - they just have to be prepared for an ass whoopin' if they sneak up on you-- haa


Daniel also tried to talk this guy around... by saying leave it be .. etc --- Daniel was a bit concerned because he seemed to know your name ... Daniel said he was concerned because it was the same one as on your passport... so be careful,, but yeah the world is full of nut job wankers wanting to feel superior by trying to bring someone else down./..

You know the funny thing that sticks with me about writting my book,, is the fact that so many people said you cant do that... like it was illegal for me to achieve anything.. haaa./.. human nature , someone else succeeding makes others feel inferior..


anyway keep well... check out the new pics on my web site.. I will speak soon

dont let the turkeys bring you down.. do what I do these days.. Zero tolerance towards the assholes...


James Bennett


[Now, if this clown comes up in my yard and I have to kill him. I'm going to hold the lot of you responsible for sending him my way. This is NOT a game gentlemen. Actions have consequences. Hope you are proud of yourselves. If you want Sensei Bennett's e-mail address so you can verify this threat, since you are always wanting me to "cite my sources," you contact me privately. See, unlike you, I wouldn't publish something about him that would draw fire. Thank you again for the changes you did make. Do feel a bit "damned by faint praise," however, LOL "extra in a few movies" and "publicity stunt," really! I never told those jerks it was a publcity stunt, I told them to send me the money and we'd talk. If they don't have $10,000 to put up, then they are not serious about getting in the ring. They said they couldn't trust me, that I'd just run off with the money. Haven't run anywhere yet have I? They won't trust me with cash but the want me to trust them not to gang up or shoot me? Proves they are not real contenders. All part of being a kung fu killer, boys. Even David Carradine gets punks like this challenging him and he doesn't even claim any ability, just that he is an actor. I don't see any entry bashing him on your "encyclopedia," LOL You asked me above to have patience in case someone came in and wanted to change the page back. I say unto you that we aren't done fixing it yet. And, when it is done, it should be protected so we don't have to go through all this again. That seems fair to me,let's talk. I remain,

Ashida Kim 5 July 05]

Greetings User:Ashida Kim. Well, a few comments.
"I'm going to hold the lot of you responsible for sending him my way"
How so? We don't publish addresses (we don't even have and aren't interested in Kim's address, FTM), and we don't publish info that isn't available elsewhere. Ashida Kim made the decision to become a public figure in the world of martial arts. If he is challenged afterwards he has no one to blame but himself, and if he is the martial artist he claims to be, then why would he be worried? As you say: "All part of being a kung fu killer, boys."
"Do feel a bit "damned by faint praise," however, LOL "extra in a few movies" and "publicity stunt," really! I never told those jerks it was a publcity stunt"
Encyclopaedia articles are by definition neutral, bland. The verifiable facts should speak for themselves. We are stuck in a paradox, we want to provide as much info as possible, but we also have to assume that our readers have enough intelligence already to be interested in neutral facts, and have the candlepower to make up their own minds with those facts. We don't want to try to steer anyone in a value judgment. That is why the Bullshido version of the article can be changed. They can say what they want, Kim can say what he wants, but we have to make it clear who is saying what. I'm not happy with the article yet, either. I included the movie bit because it was something notable that I could find on the website bio. I did take out the "publicity stunt" comment because there was no source cited.
"Even David Carradine gets punks like this challenging him and he doesn't even claim any ability, just that he is an actor. I don't see any entry bashing him on your encyclopedia"
Carradine does publish martial arts videos, though, so he does imply that he is somehow a martial expert. That's the business, you say you know martial arts, and butt heads are going to want to challenge you. Carradine can afford to hire ninjas to fight for him, though, LOL.
"You asked me above to have patience in case someone came in and wanted to change the page back. I say unto you that we aren't done fixing it yet. And, when it is done, it should be protected so we don't have to go through all this again"
Yeah, as I said above, I agree that the article still needs work. It's a good thing we aren't being paid contingent on a deadline! ;-) I was hoping some other editors would contribute, too. That extra participation is a mandate that helps us do things to protect the page if it is changed later. We don't like to indefinitely protect pages at WP, that is usually done only for obvious vandalism (or people who refuse to discuss their edits), and then only for a day or two. Now that I've edited the article, I would be loath to protect it myself (conflict of interest), I'd request another admin to do it if necessary.
Cheers, Fire Star 5 July 2005 15:11 (UTC)

Okay

Only one bone of contention to your reply, about holding you folks and Bullshido responsible. I have no problem accepting challenges, so long as they conform to my conditions. See, I'm not interested in fighting anyone. I KNOW I can hurt people and I choose not to do it any more. Your part, and Bullshido's, comes from twisting what I say, making up lies, and spreading them all over the internet. You don't seem to realize the power you have to make or break someone when they look a name up in your supposedly factual encyclopedia. You call it an encyclopedia and they think it is true. As you have seen, it can be in error. In fact, despite your policy, the original piece was nothing at all if not a personal attack. You can split hairs about it if you want. But, it falls into the same category as "outing" a CIA agent so they can be attacked. You don't have to publish an address, stalkers can always track down a victim. If they have a name.

Ashida Kim

I have no problems accepting challenges either, as long as they conform to my conditions as well. I'm pretty sure I could think up some ridiculous conditions of my own, but yours are already well structured so that you can completely avoid fighting so I'll just use them if you don't mind.
Like it or not, an encyclopedia is for stating facts, not spinning them. The facts are that you sell black belt certifications without any fact checking or verification. The facts are that you have dubious credentials and use a lot of pseudonyms, including a mish-mashed Japanese-Korean name. The facts are simple, and the facts should be the focus of the Wikipedia entry on you, whether you like them or not. --Phrost 6 July 2005 19:52 (UTC)

Hello Neal...

The high mucky muck speaks, eh? LOL Look, Slim, nobody writes about what I write about. How many books do you see about sneaking up on sentries? Or, learning how to meditate so you understand that sneaking up on sentries is just a symbolic way of psychologically "settling the score" with someone you can't fight or defeat in real life; a boss, an older brother, an ex-wife, LOL See, if you imagine your revenge, plan it, study it, relish the details and feed on it to keep you warm when you are helpless and alone, very seldom do you get to deliver it. But, eventually, just like Sho Kosugi in Revenge of the Ninja, you can look your enemy in the eye and he can feel your hate, and he will back down and you will be free of him; and you never have to throw a "real" punch. Eventually you realize the reasons for your heatred and fear and free yourself even from those two demons. The quest is for self knowledge, my friend. That is what it should be about.

You want facts?

You cannot deny that throwing sand in a person's eyes to temporarily blind them is a practical form of invisibility. At least as practical as any magician ever made it. The Taoist sages say the "secret of invisiblity is sitting as still as a lizard on a rock." So, even the sages spoke of this subject. And what is "sitting still as a lizard" if not meditating so you can quiet your heart and see the world as it really is?"

I have shown you my credentials many times, you just refuse to accept them. That is your problem, not mine. Nor are you swayed by any logical argument or even common courtesy. I have told you and your cronies many times that I don't care what you do at your own site, but that I will not have you coming to my site to stir crapola and post dirty composite pictures of me. That is not noble, Neal. That is just nasty. The world is a big place, plenty of room for all of us. You have made a career running down me and Frank Dux and a few others that didn't kiss your ring. But, your time is passing. The truth always wins in the end. And the truth is, Neal, that no one cares about this issue. The people who buy my books are looking for secret power. And I give it to them in a variety of ways. That is what you are objecting to- to me helping people find their own path. Pretty small of you, isn't it?

I remain, in spite of your best efforts for twenty years to get rid of me,

Ashida Kim


a note on ninja hyperbole

A small point re: "best efforts for twenty years": Neal from bullshido is in his early 30s. I highly doubt he was expending his best efforts to get rid of you when he was a pre-teen.

--JC

More Hair Splitting

All you guys must be Democraps, LOL You just can't stay on the topic can you? Okay for him to call me a fake and a fraud without demonstrating any evidence thereof, but not alright for me to complain because he and his minions harass me daily on my own site. DOUBLE STANDARD! You take ONE TINY POINT THAT DOESN'T EVEN MATTER and act like you have discredited my whole post with your silly line. Just a punk troll game, JC. What color is the sky in your world? LOL

And, don't come back with Chad Sloman as "proof" of giving Black Belts unverified. I posted above, IF you had read it, that we granted him EXPERT status based on his stated credentials CONTINGENT upon him returning his Registraion Form and Documentation. You cannot rig the game and then accuse ME of cheating. That's just another troll game.

Ashida Kim

Bullshido.com has repeatedly shown their evidence in their claims against you, Mr. Kim. The following two links are a thread and article detailing how your $10,000 challenge was rescinded in the face of someone actually taking it up on September 3rd, 2003.
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5597
http://www.bullshido.com/article_read.asp?id=173
Bullshido.com also has evidence that you issued a member a black belt certificate (or "expert rank", to use your own words) for $55:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=24467
This thread above also includes photographic evidence of the items in question.
http://tinypic.com/6sfdbp.jpg
http://tinypic.com/6sfddd.jpg
- scb_steve


Your second "proof" only PROVES what I said. YOU lied to me, then you accuse me of cheating you when I gave you what you asked for. Does not the certificate read "expert" just as I said? As I stated above, AGAIN, we act in good faith until jerks like you prove yourselves to be untrustworthy. But, you are so far out of touch with reality that you are still not on topic. Just going over the same old crap and thinking that you are winning. I pity you.

Ashida Kim

So you admit it?

Sounds like you're admitting you sell belts/certs and rationalizing it by saying it's on some kind of honor system. The whole point bullshido is out to make is that the honor system isn't good enough for something people use to justify their legitmacy in martial arts. If you're a sincere martial artist, why is $55 bucks enough for you to let yourself be part of the problem? The selling of certifications and belts in the world of martial arts is such a problem that most of the time, when you tell someone you do martial arts, they think of the sort of person that buys your products, Mr. Kim, and roll their eyes. This practice cheapens us all - so your frail excuse that it does no harm to humor someone who wants a cert for their wall or provide one to someone who 'deserves' one but has failed to earn it from the hundreds if not thousands of legitimate schools around the world is thin at best, sir.

--JC


Hello Mr. Davis:

There are actually two certificates in question one reads "Black Belt Certification having completed the prescribed course and syllabus of study in Vale Tudo has, upon examination and review of by the governing counsel of Yudansha (Black Belt) International been awarded the rank of and graduation of Expert."

So even though the certificate reads on its face "Black Belt Certification" you are arguing that it only certifies Mr. Sloman as an expert, not a black belt when it is obvious from the certificate itself that these terms are being used interchangably. Now on to the accompanying DOJO Certificate of Rank and Membership "This Document certifies that Chad Sloman is a registered member in good standing of the Dojo-Martial Arts Academy Inducted at the rank and grade of Black Belt 1st Degree In the Martial Art, Style, or System of the Vale Tudo."

So what part of the words Black Belt don't I understand?

BTW I wish you wouldn't insult Stephen Hayes behind his back, I thought you said not to speak ill of another Black Belt.

Take care

Samuel Browning


Sam,

Once again, you didn't read the thread. Above I said that we award an honorary Black Belt based on his credentials as an expert. Same as the TKD people do to every political fop or sheriff they want to impress. You are just wasting our time going over old ground.

Me? Insult the great Mr. Hayes. I can show you his newsletter where he called me a fake in 1984 and started a lot of this crap. Of course, he called everyone else a fake too, LOL Have him tell you about the time I infiltrated his seminar because some of my students had said he was running me down at them. When he didn't, I let him live. But, I told him I had been there and thanked him for not disappointing me by being rude. After that he always assigned "bodyguards" from whatever Dojo, or hotel conference room, he taught in. Don't hear you running HIM down for taking security precautions. Or, for teaching in motel rooms. Don't see you giving me any credit for performing a Ninja mission by getting close enough to snuff him. Still got the letter he sent me acknowledging all this.

JC- Still not condemning Hatsumi for doing the same thing. Double standard.

Ashida Kim rides again, LOL

P.S. to Trolls

Please read the thread before making me repeat all this over and over. Simple fact is, I am a Black Belt and I can give a Black Belt to anyone I want. Fact is, I can make up a system based on my martial arts experience, which s extensive despite your disbelief, to provide ordinary citizens with simple effective self defense so they won't be the prey of muggers and rapists without having to spend two years at a commercial school where they must bow and scrap and learn tournament techniques that don't work on the street, which is probably how you make your money, LOL Fact is Hayes did the same thing when he proclaimed himself An Shu of his Kasumi-do system. Fact is you ain’t the boss of me and you can't tell me how to run my business. I don't do that to you. If you don't agree with me, just go your own way. If you think the people who read and get something out of what I write are fools, you are wrong. But, even if you weren’t, isn’t it their choice what to read? Doesn’t the fact that my books have continued to be best sellers since the first one was published in 1980 (another error of fact in this supposed encyclopedia which makes me even older by saying I started writing in the seventies, LOL) say anything to you about the validity of what I say and teach? This baloney about me making the whole Karate industry look bad is absurd. What makes YOU look bad is this constant harping on meaningless minutiae and holding me to a double standard higher than anyone else.

Ashida Kim

Thats interesting Mr. Davis. The word honorary does not appear on either certificate which indicates they are not as you describe them. Printing the word honorary on them would also ensure that they were not used for mischief such as setting up a bogus Vale Tudo school. This you did not do because it would ruin your ability to sell such paper.

Secondly as has been pointed out to you before you are allegedly a black belt in Ninjistsu(sp). TKD fops give out honorary Black Belts in TKD. How can you give out in good faith even an honorary certificate in an art you do not study or teach?

Next,you never insisted that Mr. Sloman ship his credentials to you AFTER sending him the certificates, if at all, UNTIL we pointed out what you were doing.

Your copy of the Mr Hayes's newsletter and his letter to you would of course be of interest, please scan them and place the images on your web site to prove they exist, or exist as described.

So many other issues, so little time. Such as your publication of ninja pornographic books X-rated Dragon Lady anyone? Regardless of the bad behavior of others it appears that you many be the most prominant Black Belt diploma mill on the net. Your books are of questionable authenticity, Please tell us the full name of your ninja teacher, where you studied with him, and for how long, and who can confirm his existance. You will continue to be of interest to others if for no other reason then you provide a bad example.

Samuel Browning


LOL

Do the honorary Black Belts given by TKD have "honorary" stamped on them anywhere?

If you read the booklet, the Registration Form in the center clearly says you should fill it out and return it with any other credentials you want on file. Once again, omit the important part and call me a liar.

Not going to waste my time scanning letters. When you said I wasn't in the BDFS and I showed you my ID Card signed by Count Dante, you didn't accept that as proof. So, in keeping with Wiki policy, I cite my source and tell you to go ask HIM. You don't want to do that. First, because Hayes won't talk to you, and second, because it would prove I am telling the truth. There is a famous Chat Room transcript somewhere on the web where Hayes acknowledges this incident.

Told you the name of my teacher in Forbidden Fighting Techniques. You didn't accept it because it wasn't written on some scroll held by some other school. Once again, no matter what I present, you won't accept it. Got plenty of certificates in lots of styles. Mostly from people you wouldn't know who aren't "registered with the ISKA" or any other dues collecting organization, but could, and in many cases have, killed men in battle with there bare hands. I have their respect, but not yours. Because your mind is closed.

Even if I am the "bad example" you suggest, who appointed YOU the keeper of the flame? Lots of real crimes going on in the world. Or, you could work on your own personality and stop being a bully. But, you lot spend all your time being pious, self righteous, judge, jury and kangaroo court executioners of people you have never taken the courtesy to meet. And THAT is the issue, Sammy boy, that this tripe and these lies were PUBLISHED AS THE TRUTH based solely on innuendo and misrepresentation from Bullshido. ALL of which I have refuted many times. And no one even had the courtesy say squat to me. That proves it is a personal attack, in violation of Wikipedia policy. You punks are real good at trash and bash. I have demonstrated that logic and truth or even anything resembling a fair standard is denied to me by you and your cult of flunkies. Don't see any refutation of the longevity of my work or the fact that a good deal of the Ninja character in the new Batman movie was drawn from it. All I hear from any of you is simple jealousy. Even me getting a kiss on the cover of a pamphlet makes you so insanely jealous you can't stand it, LOL

But, even that is okay. Because times, they are a changing. One day soon you will look back on all this stupidity and know that you were wrong and that,in spite of your staggering ignorance and incompetence, I forgive you. 'Cause you just don't know any better. Poor toilet traiing I expect, LOL

Ashida Kim

Comments

First off, I'd like to congratulate everyone for the degree of restraint and reasonableness being shown. It may not seem that reasonable to you guys, but there have been much worse flame wars here at WP over smaller issues. Martial arts are inherently a controversial subject, and of course there is going to be disagreement, but the article doesn't have to solve the controversy, just neutrally and fairly report it. To keep things on track your best bets for dealing with someone on Wikipedia who disagrees with you about what should be in an article are as follows:

  1. Explain on the talk page why you think what you wrote is right. Read what they say as well.
  2. Provide references from outside Wikipedia to back up what you think. If they do the same, read them.
  3. Ask for other people to look at the article and provide advice. Even if they know nothing about the subject they may be able to help.
  4. Remember that opinions shouldn't be in an article.
  5. If there is a real disagreement over what the facts are, not just between two editors but between different groups of people, then the best way may be to record both views and allow the reader to make up their mind.
  6. If you believe the other user really isn't listening to reason, then try Wikipedia:Request for comment to get other people's opinions.

Regards, Fire Star 7 July 2005 04:56 (UTC)

My Reply

"If you read the booklet, the Registration Form in the center clearly says you should fill it out and return it with any other credentials you want on file. Once again, omit the important part and call me a liar."

Issuing certificates before receiving any proof of a person's credentials is running a diploma mill. You did not require evidence of anything other then payment before issuing paperwork to Chad that could be used to open a Mcdojo. On one of the two certificates you issued chad you listed his multiple kyu ranks which he provided you with so you knew he couldn't provide evidence of black belt rank. You still sold him the certificates anyway, one of which did not mention his kyu ranks, that certificate awarded him a black belt, 1st degree rank in Vale Tudo.

"Not going to waste my time scanning letters. When you said I wasn't in the BDFS and I showed you my ID Card signed by Count Dante, you didn't accept that as proof."

You never showed me, Samuel Browning any such card, and signature authentication is best done using the orginal. However if you are willing to provide me with a clean copy of both sides of this document I will be happy to try to get in contact with William Aguliar (I may be mispelling his last name) to confirm its authenticity. My mailing Address is Samuel P. Browning Esq, 671 Scotland Road, Norwich, CT 06360. I understand Mr. Aguliar is up in Fall River Mass, if you have his current addresss, or that of his legal counsel it would be appreciated. Will you deny that he threatened to sue you for copyright infringment?

"There is a famous Chat Room transcript somewhere on the web where Hayes acknowledges this incident."

Its so famous you can't offer a link. Or scan the appropriate documentation that would greatly help your argument. Just another vague argument, you can do better Radford, just try a bit harder.

"Told you the name of my teacher in Forbidden Fighting Techniques. You didn't accept it because it wasn't written on some scroll held by some other school."

I never read this book and am surprised that you won't repeat this basic information here. If I knew where they taught, when they taught and their full name I could confirm their existance through public records but for obvious reasons you will not cooperate with such an effort.

"Mostly from people you wouldn't know who aren't "registered with the ISKA" or any other dues collecting organization, but could, and in many cases have, killed men in battle with there bare hands."

Hyperbolie, soldiers generally use weapons to kill their enemies in combat, the number of whom who have literally used their bare hands to kill is few and far between.

"Even if I am the "bad example" you suggest, who appointed YOU the keeper of the flame? Lots of real crimes going on in the world. Or, you could work on your own personality and stop being a bully. But, you lot spend all your time being pious, self righteous, judge, jury and kangaroo court executioners of people you have never taken the courtesy to meet. And THAT is the issue, Sammy boy, that this tripe and these lies were PUBLISHED AS THE TRUTH based solely on innuendo and misrepresentation from Bullshido. ALL of which I have refuted many times. And no one even had the courtesy say squat to me."

You peddle shlock, mail order certificates, ninja porno, ninja pipe dreams, ridiculous stories and other slop that detracts from the martial arts community. If my efforts stop you from selling a couple more books to gulible 15 year olds I'm happy. And you have piled falsehood upon falsehood, for example what is the name of the "pimp" in Maine who in 1995 supposedly inspired Phrost re Bullshido. Can you point to a single criminal incident report which would support this far fetched claim? And you accused a man named Anthony of taking a picture of fake money when he sent a picture of $5,000 in real money he took out of the bank with which to challege you before you backed out.

"I have demonstrated that logic and truth or even anything resembling a fair standard is denied to me by you and your cult of flunkies."

I have a cult of flunkies? Sweet! Do any look like Katie Holmes or Christine Ricci?

"Don't see any refutation of the longevity of my work or the fact that a good deal of the Ninja character in the new Batman movie was drawn from it."

1)Shlock Sells 2) I think you are deluding yourself, but why don't you try to convince a lawyer to represent you in your suit against the studio or screenwriters, I think you will get a rapid reality check.

"All I hear from any of you is simple jealousy. Even me getting a kiss on the cover of a pamphlet makes you so insanely jealous you can't stand it"

Are you refering to the cover of X-rated Dragon Lady Again? You both were kind of fugly, I do have a question, in one of your books you were a doorman at a brothel. Why are you so obsessed with pimps and prostitution?

You amuse me, what specific question would you like me to ask Stephen Hayes again?

Samuel Browning

On It Goes

Just never tire of hearing yourself ramble, eh Sam? Already explained that we issue our certificates in good faith in anticipation that the applicant will send in credentials OR a videotest. Got a few dozen of those laying about, but you probably don't see them as valid either, LOL Here is how the scam goes- first you lie to me; second, you condemn me for qualifying this clown as an expert based on HIS testimony; then you condemn me for giving him a Black Belt equivalancy so he can be in our fraternity of martial artists; fourth, all of which illustrates that there is no way to satisfy you and that you delight in "setting me up." See, you aren't happy with EITHER certificate. But then, who would expect you to be when it was all a scam? Closed minds again.

Didn't show YOU the ID Card? Now I must do it again? Sorry, Samo, not going to go over all the material again just because you were sleeping in class and missed the memo, LOL Besides, you still wouldn't be happy. Ask some of your cronies. They saw it. Signature authentication indeed, who do you think you are the FBI? You can find an expert to say anything you want. If you don't have one you just make it up yourself, LOL

Same with the Chat Room transcript. You think I keep all this tripe you clowns put up? My greatest joy is deleting your silly rantings.

Teacher's name? Still harping on that? Told you, my Sensei wasn't a "karate guy" who registered his name anywhere that you would have acces to. But, let me ask you this- Is Hatsumi in the ISKA? Is Hayes? No, so you would not be able to "verify" their credentials by this method either. This is just a Democrapic "game." No matter what information is given, it is never enough and just leads to more questions and innuendo. Plus, since you have been everywhere and know everything you KNOW FOR CERTAIN that "most soldiers use weapons and don't kill with their bare hands." Talk to the Masked Marine about that. Force Recon, does a LOT of bare hand techniques. But, you wouldn't know that because you have never been in the military. Which, of course, qualifies you to criticize it and assume everyone is all one way all the time. Unrealistic, Samo.

Didn't say there were any police records of the Maine pimp. Said I closed down his school. Once again, you wander off the track.

You say the money was real? Well, according to you, there were still $5000 short, LOL

You don't have a cult of flunkies. You are a flunky, LOL Look how much time and energy you have wasted doing Phrost's work for him. Doesn't pay well, does it? LOL Plus you missed all the good stuff about how logic and truth mean nothing to you and your ilk.

You say my stuff is "schlock?" How many books have YOU written? Just jealousy again, Bud.

As for me and the babe on X-Rated Dragon Lady being "ugly." That's sort of a personal attack, isn't it? Violates the policy, doesn't it? But again, WHO MADE YOU THE JUDGE OF WHAT IS PRETTY?

As for being a doorman at a brothel, just one of my many adventures. But, isn't it interesting that you are so eager to believe this story because you think it makes me look bad, while refusing to believe logic or evidence to convince you that you are wrong about everything else.

I amuse you? Wonderful! Is it not a good thing to bring happiness to the lives of others?

What question shall you ask Hayes? Ask him about the infiltration of his seminar I described above. And WHEN HE TELLS YOU THAT IT IS TRUE come back here and apologize for being a snot, LOL

Ashida Kim

My Reply Point by Point:

"Already explained that we issue our certificates in good faith in anticipation that the applicant will send in credentials OR a videotest."

Actually on http://dojopress.com/catalogms1.html dealing with Dojo Membership and Rank Certificate you say "This document certifies that the named bearer is a registered member in good standing of our most ancient and honorable Martial Arts Fraternity. Specify Name, Rank, and Style to be designated on your official membership certification and placed in your Permanent record with our fellowship. IF YOU WISH, INCLUDE A PHOTO AND COPIES OF ANY PREVIOUS CERTIFICATES YOU WANT TO KEEP ON FILE TO VALIDATE YOUR CREDENTIALS." (capitalization mine) Anticipation is a waffle word, you don't require, or even expect that proof be provided either before or after the certificate is sold, and you never asked Chad for such evidence before or after his certificates exchanged hands. So you yourself are not telling the truth, anticipation is not agreement and it formed no part of the bargained for exchange in this matter. When I recently corresponded with Chad concerning this matter, he pointed out that when you sent him his certificates there was no demand for additional information by yourself, just a generic thank you for his purchase :)

Interestingly in http://dojopress.com/catalogms2.html you state in regards to black belt membership "certification, suitable for framing, in your chosen system of fighting arts can be awarded upon presentation of previous credentials at Yudansha/Black Belt Level or above. Prior certification or documentation eliminates the video testing requirement." However You issued a Black Belt Certification to chad calling him a expert without either a video or other proof that he knew anything about Vale Tudo. At least in catalogm1 your ad was more straightforward in that you required no proof when handing out rank.

For anyone reading this thread they can go to http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=24467 to see pictures of these two certificates http://tinypic.com/6sfdbp.jpg http://tinypic.com/6sfddd.jpg

"Here is how the scam goes- first you lie to me; second, you condemn me for qualifying this clown as an expert based on HIS testimony; then you condemn me for giving him a Black Belt equivalancy so he can be in our fraternity of martial artists"

While you have previously insisted that Chad made false representations concerning his MA experience the box on the Black Belt Certificate lists his experience as "7 kyu Yoshikai Karate", "5th Kyu Aikido", "7th Kyu Judo" and Atarashii Naginata", guess what, he told you the truth about his experience and you still rated him as an expert in Vale Tudo on the Black Belt Certificate and gave him a Black Belt 1st Degree in Vale Tudo on his Certificate of Rank and Membership. I suppose you are claiming that you were too dense to compare the information on both certificates when "Ashida Kim" signed them.

And yes we fault you for handing out these certificates to Chad Based on his truthful information. It shows you run a certificate mill. Nice try at trying to claim that you only awarded him a black belt equivalancy, the Certificate of Rank and Membership never mentions the E word.

"Didn't show YOU the ID Card? Now I must do it again? Sorry, Samo, not going to go over all the material again just because you were sleeping in class and missed the memo, LOL Besides, you still wouldn't be happy. Ask some of your cronies. They saw it. Signature authentication indeed, who do you think you are the FBI? You can find an expert to say anything you want. If you don't have one you just make it up yourself, LOL"

This is relevent because ealier on this thread you attacked me for disputing your claims and claimed I had personally viewed this card. Now you are changing your story and insisting other members of Bullshido have seen this document. Why don't you tell me who you are referring to? As for signature authentication it is a part of questioned document examination and yes I could find who knew the real John Keegan to attempt to authenticate his supposed signature. There are a number of experts who work in this field but you are afraid to have this claim put to the test.

"Same with the Chat Room transcript. You think I keep all this tripe you clowns put up? My greatest joy is deleting your silly rantings."

Bullshido members were not involved in this chat room conversation, Stephen Hayes supposedly was. Yet you can't produce another important piece of evidence you need to support your story. You raised a claim in your defense and now you can't support it.

"Teacher's name? Still harping on that? Told you, my Sensei wasn't a "karate guy" who registered his name anywhere that you would have acces to. But, let me ask you this- Is Hatsumi in the ISKA? Is Hayes? No, so you would not be able to "verify" their credentials by this method either."

No but I could verify their existance through public records, and with old phone books I could verify the existance of Hayes's martial arts schools. Your conception of record searches is limited to the ISKA which is too narrow and misleading.


"Plus, since you have been everywhere and know everything you KNOW FOR CERTAIN that "most soldiers use weapons and don't kill with their bare hands." Talk to the Masked Marine about that. Force Recon, does a LOT of bare hand techniques. But, you wouldn't know that because you have never been in the military."

First let me quote Richard Marcinko in his book "Rogue Warrior" (p.118) "Never did I give Charlie an even break. I shot from ambush. I used superior fire power. I never engaged in hand to hand combat unless there was actually no alternative - to me, the combat knife should be a tool, not a weapon. All the whiz-bang, knife fighting, karate/judo/kung-fu b.s. you see in the rRambo-Jambo shoot em up movies is just that: bullshit".

The last recorded U.S. Army/Marine bayonet charge was in Korea. Our service members at bullshido who have combat experience have commented on the lack of hand to hand combat during war. Ask Tiffer about that. Force Recon does martial arts training but the vast majority of its kills are with guns, for a similar situation read the book "Jarhead" about scout snipers during the first gulf war. Guns decide the battlefield. I'm interested Radford that unlike myself you are implying to have a service background. If you tell me the branch I will happily FOIA your service record to see if you actually have any real combat accomplishments or if you are blowing smoke.

"Didn't say there were any police records of the Maine pimp. Said I closed down his school. Once again, you wander off the track."

You won't even provide a name Radford? I could then pull his criminal record to see if he had any convictions in Maine and even existed. And how is Phrost tied in to this guy? I've

"You say the money was real? Well, according to you, there were still $5000 short, LOL"

And you still backed out, see

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5597 http://www.bullshido.com/article_read.asp?id=173

"You don't have a cult of flunkies. You are a flunky, LOL Look how much time and energy you have wasted doing Phrost's work for him. Doesn't pay well, does it? LOL Plus you missed all the good stuff about how logic and truth mean nothing to you and your ilk."

Aw, Radford you said I had my own cult in your last post! And no I do this work from the goodness of my own heart, not of Phrost's orders :)

"You say my stuff is "schlock?" How many books have YOU written? Just jealousy again, Bud."

Hey I'm glad I'm unpublished rather then producing such works as "the amorous adventures of Ashida Kim" http://dojopress.com/catalogbk41.html I'm surprised a "master" such as your self doesn't find it degrading to have created ninja porn.

"As for me and the babe on X-Rated Dragon Lady being "ugly." That's sort of a personal attack, isn't it? Violates the policy, doesn't it?"

Yes, a policy you yourself violate here regularly.

But again, WHO MADE YOU THE JUDGE OF WHAT IS PRETTY?"

MY EYES :P

"As for being a doorman at a brothel, just one of my many adventures."

More like one of your wistful fantasies.

"What question shall you ask Hayes? Ask him about the infiltration of his seminar I described above. And WHEN HE TELLS YOU THAT IT IS TRUE come back here and apologize for being a snot, LOL"

Taking a seminar with him in a room with oh 50 to 100 other guys is considered infiltration? Why don't you tell me the date and location of this accomplishment so I can actually ask him about something specific?

Your turn Radford.

On Double Standards

It's not Hatsumi's wiki, Mr. Kim. Also, were't ID Cards from the BFDS availble from the backs of comics and magazines for quite some time?


See this link for an example: (fine print, lower left, "...I will recieve a FREE Black Dragon Fighting Society ID...") [9]

--JohnnyC

Another County Heard From

Okay Johnny, let me make this as clear as I can. The point I am making is that when it comes to giving certificates Hatsumi does the same thing that you condemn me for and no one says squat to him. That is a double standard.

As for the ID Card, I got mine in Chicago at a seminar in 1968 with a copy of Count Dante's book. My understanding is that if you ordered a book from him through one of his comic book ads, you got the ID Card with it by return mail. So, that being standard procedure, how can you possibly say that I am not a member?

See, guys, I win EVERY TIME! Your accusations are ALWAYS based on misinformation and innuendo. That is what makes you trolls. BTW the guy who accused me of "hyperbolie" misspelled it. It is pronounced "high-per-bow-lee" but it is spelled HYPERBOLE. It a battle of wits, you chaps are unarmed, LOL

Ashida Kim

William Aguilar who knew John 'Count Dante' Keegan since 1967 says you never met Keegan.

Samuel Browning

Sammo-

GM Aguiar was not with Count Dante every second of his life and does not know all the things he did. When I spoke with him by phone a few years ago he agreed that the seminar I described probably took place and he might not hve been there or been aware of it. Besides, you trolls have reported him dead several times now, so how did you ask him this question? LOL

Ashida Kim

1) I never reported him dead.

2) Several of his students have gone on E-budo and have made this statement on his behalf.

If you have Mr. Aguiar's phone number I will be happy to call him myself to resolve this point :)

Samuel Browning

The Facts Regarding the Vale Tudo Blackbelt

1) I went to the dojopress webpage ordering form for blackbelts here [10]

2) I filled in my current and ACCURATE credentials in the "message to seller" box. I never lied or claimed to have BJJ/MMA/Vale Tudo experience. Anybody with any experience in Japanese martial arts would know that kyu ranks are for mudansha which are less than black belt. This is verbatim what was typed in, no more, no less:

Please send me a black belt certificate in "Vale Tudo". My experience: 7th kyu Yoshukai Karate (World Yoshukai Karate Kobudo Organization); 1.5 years (untested) Atarashii Naginata (Southern California Naginata Federation); 5th kyu Aikido (Aikido Schools of Ueshiba); 7th kyu Judo (United States Judo Association)

3) I was sent back two blackbelt/expert certificates in Vale Tudo signed by Christopher Hunter and R. William Davis and Ashida Kim in the mail along with the Dojo Academy of martial arts handbook, an Ultimate wrestling techniques manual, a BDFS ID card, a BDFS bookmark, a dojo academy of martial arts patch and a book ordering page listing dojo press products with the only personal correspondence in the whole packet which read: "thanks for the order, have a great day, ashida kim"

4) It was never mentioned or implied that I was to supply cred/verifications at a later date, that's really quite proposperous since you already sent out the blackbelt certs. The middle page of the dojo academy of martial arts handbook that you are referring too is actually a BDFS dojo application. Since I don't care to open a dojo under the auspices of the BDFS or dojo academy of martial arts, there really was no reason to fill it out and send it in.

More information regarding this matter can be found at bullshido.net in this thread: [11] People can make up their own minds if what he did was OK and ethical or not, but at least all of the facts should be straight. Anybody that performs these types of practices will be criticized by our group. Whether it be Hatsumi or Hayes or Kim or whoever, trying to "plan B" somebody else doesn't change the fact that Ashida Kim is doing it and doesn't change the fact that it's not OK. Much of the derision that Ashida Kim faces is actually brought on by himself. If he was to write his books and mind to himself, we'd probably not hear so much controversey surround him, but the fact is that he puts himself out there on the internet making bold and silly claims for all to see. The freedom that gives Ashida Kim the right to say and publish what he likes also gives us the right to criticize what he says and publishes. If he doesn't like the negative publicity then he shouldn't put $10,000 challenges on the internet and talk up chat rooms with crap about invisibility and mind control. None of this would matter if it was just fluff, but what makes him different is that he still takes himself very seriously which draws much ire from his critics.

Using aliases doesn't make you a ninja, it makes you a paranoid liar

Chad Sloman

Sound Like A Deal To Me, LOL

So Chad, you present your credentials here? Fine! Wouldn't most of you readers say that if a man came to you with all that experience he would be qualified to be a Black Belt?

As for what you received, seems like a pretty good deal to me. Count Dante just sent a book and and ID Card, I give a lot more, eh? What do you get when you join Hayes' club? By the way, I don't see ANY crticism of these other guys, just me.

You are wrong about the not asking for credentials to back up your claim. As I said above, the Application Form says to fill it out and return it with any other credentials you wish kept on file. Doesn't the word "application" tell you that you are not in the club yet? We have a procedure and a process, you refuse to follow it then say we a fakes. We issued these certificates in good faith. If you are a liar, that is not our fault.

As for "putting myself out there on the internet" would you deny me the right to advertise my wares. Must they ONLY be sold through crooked bookstores and cheating publishers. In this day and age anyone can be an author. What tells the tale is whether his stuff sells, and mine does, LOL You say also that I stir up trouble by going to chat rooms? That is an outright lie. The one chat room I mentioned was seven years ago. I DEFY you to find a single post by me on any other board except my own and this one. YOU lot are always coming to my site to harass me, but I NEVER go back and argue with you because it always becomes just this sort of time-waster. You are not going to change your opinion because your mind is closed. I am not going to take down my Challenge Response, just because you tell me to. But, let me get this straight- what you want if for me to get in the ring with a champion of your choosing like Andre the Giant or Ken Shamrock so I get my butt kicked and you don't even want to pay me to come to the show? That would be pretty stupid wouldn't it? LOL I said before, I do not want to fight anyone, That is why I learned martial arts, so I didn't have to fight. As before, it is about self knowledge, not beating people up.

As for aliases, three quotes: 1) "My names are legion," Lucifer; His counterpart's name is "unknown and unspeakable," is it not? 2) All cats have three names. The one they are called, the one they are known by, and the one they keep to themselves. Peter Ustinov- Logan's Run; 3) "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet,(or as bad, LOL)" Shakespeare. Names, where a technique comes from, all that means nothing to me. Only is it simple and effective. Besides, these aren't aliases. Chris Hunter and Bill Davis are friends of mine, that is why you harass them as well.

For decades the commercial martial arts industry has run a standard operation of giving you a Black Belt in two years and promoting you every three months for positive reinforcement to keep you around till you paid off your contract. I give them instant self defense for $10. Plenty of room for all of us, if you pricks would just stop being jealous, LOL

You say it is "your right" to criticize me. Fine, do it all you want on your own silly message boards. BUT DON'T COME HERE AND POST YOUR LIES AS IF THEY WERE TRUE! That, Bucko, is slander and libel.

And, for those of you who think my humble literary efforts are "schlock," here is an international site that finds them worthy to be included in their online catalog along with the Art of War and a few other classics. http://www.quake-art.com/docs/ You see, your opinion means NOTHING! You are insignificant babies, screaming at the top of your lungs for attention, that's all. The code of the trolls, LOL

Ashida Kim

=

"So Chad, you present your credentials here? Fine! Wouldn't most of you readers say that if a man came to you with all that experience he would be qualified to be a Black Belt?"
Here is what Chad described:
"Please send me a black belt certificate in "Vale Tudo". My experience: 7th kyu Yoshukai Karate (World Yoshukai Karate Kobudo Organization); 1.5 years (untested) Atarashii Naginata (Southern California Naginata Federation); 5th kyu Aikido (Aikido Schools of Ueshiba); 7th kyu Judo (United States Judo Association)"

And here is Chad's qualification of the nature of that experience:

"Anybody with any experience in Japanese martial arts would know that kyu ranks are for mudansha which are less than black belt. This is verbatim what was typed in, no more, no less:"
I think that most readers of Bullshido, and most people in general, would say that conferring a black belt or "expert" rank upon someone who blatantly presented themselves as not meeting those qualifications (because as he said, none of the ranks were black-belt level in any of the listed martial arts) is foolhardy and inappropriate. That's like giving someone a college degree when the evidence suggests they haven't completed the requisite course work. So now you've admitted that you awarded an expert ranking in an art with which you have no experience (vale tudo), which has no formal ranking system, and did so based on information that on the face of it, should have immediately disqualified someone from such a rank (kyu ranks, as opposed to dan ranks). Someone with enough familiarity of Japanese culture to reference the obscure "Kimitake" family in their name should have similar familiarity between the cited ranks.
If you feel you've been slandered/libeled/whatever, you should contact a lawyer and put them into contact with Bullshido's representation, since those are very serious accusations.
- scb_steve


On It Goes, Again

Twisty, Twisty, Steve-o,

On his application it did NOT say "All these ranks are less than Black Belt." Besides I know that. We feel that the CUMULATIVE experience of so many related arts were sufficient, just a difference of opinion. You can run your school however you like. So can we. Ever hear of CLEP? College Level Examination Program? Where people who don't even have a diploma can take a test of their skills and win a degree in one sitting? Lots of universities use it. We often get people who say their Sensei is holding them back, or that they have lost their credentials when moving and such like. And people like this who have a variety of arts and have their own personal system they would like to have validated. We are happy to oblige for the reasons previously given.

As for lawyers, just a waste of time and money. Been there done that. Besides, the very ebb and flow of the universe is changing. I don't have to do anything. Karma will sort it all out for me, LOL

Have a good day.

Ashida Kim

If you are acknowledging that you proclaimed Chad an "expert" in Vale Tudo (a Brazilian term for "anything goes") based on rankings in 4 Japanese arts that are all below black-belt level, then you're also acknowledging that any other black belt in your dojo/instructor network may have the same sub-par credentials for proficiency/expertise in the systems they train in.
You refer to CLEP (located here: http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/clep/about.html ). CLEP is a means to demonstrate knowledge in a given area, but not all colleges/institutions recognize it as a valid means of proficiency. Some require a minimum score, some don't even allow for it to count as credit, etc. As you said, it's a matter of opinion, and the best opinions are based on information. The information here is you gave someone a black belt / expert rank in a martial art with them not even holding such qualifications.
Further, unless I'm mistaken, you have no one qualified to certify expertise in Vale Tudo. Ninjutsu/Ninpo, or some other traditional arts, perhaps, but not MMA. CLEP is authorized to award certificates based on their tests. Your certification is based on your own word, rather than granted from an authority. And since you have no Vale Tudo or MMA experience (unless I'm mistaken), you granted certification in an area you have no familiarity with. In the educational world, that's called a "diploma mill."
Karma and the "ebb-and-flow" of the universe may resolve this situation, but on a more obvious and visible level, you've shown that everyone certified under your school system is subject to a higher level of scrutiny, given the facts presented here.

Good day to you too.

- scb_steve


Potato/Patahto

Only reason we are subject to scrutiny is because we are held to a higher double standard and guys like you won't shut up, LOL Even though I have demonstrated that there are numerous precedents for the way we run our Dojo, you continue to think that you should have some say in it. Not to continue the argument, because that is what you trolls want, I refer you to one of our authors who does have Vale Tudo experience http://www.dojopress.com/catalog.books16.html Kind of shoots holes in your theory that we have no one on staff who can make a graduation in this "sport." But, you won't accept his credentials either, will you? Closed minds, Steve.

Ashida Kim

Nope Radford, that individual never signed Chad's certificates or saw a video tape of him, so just because you publish his book does not mean that you are qualified to rank people in Vale Tudo.

"Even though I have demonstrated that there are numerous precedents for the way we run our Dojo, you continue to think that you should have some say in it."

Precedents Attorney Kim? Just because you can find other people who sell rank it does not absolve you for your own actions. As martial arts consumers we accuse you of business practices which will enable the buyers of your certificates to claim fake rank and recruit naive students who should find a qualified instructor.

There are no less then three variations on your board concerning the requirements to obtain rank for $55. The page Chad proceeded under required evidence BEFORE the rank was purchased,not AFTERWARDS. (see the link provided by Chad above, what that leaves us with is the following, one page allows one to buy without any proof. The second requires proof which chad did not provide so you ignored your own standards on that page. It was a sale for money pure and simple.

And I really don't think you've had enough of lawyers, next time I go to your website I'll have to see if you're still selling, without authorization, Count Dante's work. I'm sure William A, would be interested to know what you are up to these days.

Samuel Browning

Sam

The precedents are merely to prove that you do not enforce the same standard for others that you insist on for me. Proving you are a hypocrite. As I said before, no matter what I say, you refuse to believe it. So, there is no point talking to you. It just keeps you jabbering, LOL You love it when I talk to you, don't you Samo?

Ashida Kim

There is lots of bad behavior out there but you probably run the biggest certificate mill out there Radford and are therefore the most guilty. How many certificates have you sold?

Listening to your self justifications is interesting, almost like watching footage of a trainwreck. So please continue, you are unintentionally amusing.

By the way Aikido Girl visited Bullshido and claims that you used her picturee without permission to set up your "friendship" dojo operation. Why aren't you sending her a percentage for the use of her likeness?

Samuel Browning

No point talking to a troll....

Anything you say just feeds their insanity, LOL None of your arguments are relevant or material to the issue. Issue being that you came here to character assassinate me and I caught you. You project your own inadequacies onto me to get attention, that's all. Now you think you will "trick" me into no longer defending myself because I am "unintentionally amusing." That's the game I called last week. "See he can't be a Black Belt because he spends all his time on the internet.." One day you will grow up, Sam. And, realize what is important. And, this ain't it.

You come in now dragging a bunch of other names into the thread because I have defeated you in every post and you are looking for a new angle of attack. Just another game. Never did speak to Hayes to confirm my story, did you? You just come up with more allegations; because you love to hear yourself jabber.

Have a nice Sunday and don't worry, the doctor will refill your anti-depressant medication any day now, LOL

Ashida Kim

More trolling; removed. Regards, Mr. Billion 04:28, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Actually Mr. Billion that was not trolling, I ask a question, Mr. Davis dodges and you ended up protecting him. The fact that Mr. Davis sells mail order black belt certifications without verification is damaging to his reputation but it is the truth and we have proven this point. If "Ashida" would provide the information I earlier asked for which would supply the date, place, and nature of the so-called infiltration then I could pose a clear question to Mr. Hayes. Is it trolling to ask Kim/Davis if he is paying a particular woman for the use of her likeness in selling different certificates under the aspices of the 'friendship dojo'? "Ashida Kim's" business practices are a reflection of his legitimatacy or lack of thereof and is therefore relevant. If you want to defend Mr. "Kim" by all means do so, but don't remove my comments because you disagree with them.


YOU MIGHT BE A TROLL IF...

Poor Sammo, LOL Fact is I have answered your question fifty times already. That is why repeating it is trolling.

Furthermore, I have demonstrated that the "bogus black belt certification" was a deliberate trick of the Bullshido crowd. You cannot lie to me than say I conned YOU! That is a troll game.

Already told you who to speak with to verify my infiltration story. Instead of seeking verification, which you CLAIMED you could do just by calling, you keep asking me for more proof you refuse to accept. That is a troll game.

As for my relationship with Aikido Girl, that is none of your business. Your question is NOT legitimate unless you are her lawyer, and you ain't, LOL Just shows how jealous and lonely you are though, trying to stick you nose into my lovelife, LOL And THAT is a troll game.

So, if it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck and it stinks like a duck, it is probably a troll, LOL

Ashida Kim

Hi Radford:

      You deliberately miss the point, we never lied to you, Chad's white belt rankings were revealed to you and printed on one of his two certificates.  Similarly we were not conned and never claimed to be, we wanted the certificate because they can be used to fool soccer moms and 18 year olds. They can be used for commerical purposes to con people into believing their instructor is the real deal even though he bought his paper from you without any verification of his actual ability and sight unseen.  We know you have problems with the truth, the issue was whether you would sell a black belt certificate when you shouldn't have.  Congratulations, you passed that test, and Chad would be happy to sign a sworn affidavitattesting to what he wrote here.  This includes the fact that the middle page of the handbook you refer to is actually a BDFS dojo application which only needed to be filled out if one was opening a new school which Chad wasn't about to do. Under the page he ordered from you wanted documentation BEFORE the sale and the certificates were delivered without such support, and there was nothing contingent about the order, once it was shipped there was no post hoc demand that documentation be produced.

1) New Question: Would you be willing to sign a sworn affidavit under your real name for publication that your version of events is accurate including but not limited to the claim that "Chad Sloman [wrote] in for a membership claiming all sorts of BJJ and MMA experience". I doubt it but sworn statements talk and bullshit walks.

Now lets discuss what questions you have answered and those which you haven't which is certainly revealing.

Aesopian asked under Unverified Claims:

2) What is your 9th degree black belt in? 3) Where is any record proving that you have a Ph.D in martial science? 4) Where did you get you're BA in Phychology and under which name?

Result: No answer, though it appears you are claiming that you took classes at Auburn University as of 1968.

Under More Baloney you wrote "cite my sources . . .? I AM the source Jack". And claimed "For years they said I wasn't a member of the BFDS so I sent them a copy of my ID card." Under Hello Neal you write "I have shown you my credentials many times, you just refuse to accept them." Under LOL you said "When you said I wasn't in the BDFS and I showed you my ID card signed by Count Dante, you didn't accept that as proof."

5) Under Comments I informed you that you had never shown me a copy of you Black Dragon Fighting Society card and asked you to send me a copy of both sides of this card to me at my business address.

Result you refused to send such information.

Under On It Goes you stated that members of Bullshido (my cronies?) saw your BDFS card:

6) I asked you who these people were,

You did not answer this question.

Under So You Admit It I asked you:

7) how you can give out in good faith even an honorary certificate you do not study or teach?

You responded in this section that one of your authors had vale tudo experience thus you could hand out such rank, I responded by pointing out that this indivual never signed Chad's certificates, met him, or even saw a video tape of him.

8) Under the section So You Admit It, you say "I can show you his newsletter where he called me a fake in 1984" so I asked you if you could produce a copy of Stephen Hayes's 1984 newsletter or scan a copy onto your website, and you refused to do so in the LOL section.

Under So You Admit It I asked you:

9) To produce a copy of the letter in which you claim Stephen Hayes sent you.

You claim to have infiltrated one of his seminars on an unknown date, and unknown location, and told him that you had been there and thanked him for not being rude. "Still got the letter he sent me acknowledging all this." When I asked you to scan this letter on your website you refused to do so. I then asked you:

10) To specify the date and location of this infiltration (see on it goes).

You did not answer claiming your information in essence was specific enough.

Under LOL you referred to a "famous" chat room transcript in which Hayes acknowledges this incident, you were unwilling or unable to provide any directions to this transcript. Later under On It Goes you wrote "Same with the chat room transcript. You think I keep up all this tripe you clowns put up? My greatest joy is deleating your silly rantings." This implies that you do know where the transcript existed and that Hayes was on at the same time as Bullshido members were posting. However Bullshido first came into existance in May of 2002 as Mcdojo.com so this conversation would have had to have taken place where you had the power to delete posts, i.e. your board after May, of 2002 almost two decades after the event. The problems with this permutation of your claim are mindbending.

Under So You Admit It I asked you:

11) Please tell us the full name of your ninja teacher, where you studied with him, and for how long, and who can confirm his existance.

You responded that you "had told the name of your teacher in Forbidden Fighting Techniques". I don't have a copy of this book so I asked you to print this information here since I did not have a copy of this book. Previously you had been happy to mention that you had studied Okinawan Shotokan with Nick Cairnley at Auburn University in 1968 but were unwilling to repeat any information concerning your Ninja teacher here. So you claimed that he wasn't a karate guy and his name was not on file with the ISKA and then ignored me when I informed you that one could perform a comprehensive public records background check without using the ISKA.

Under Trolls at Work You stated that William Aguiar had been tricked into attacking you Under Comments I asked:

12) For the Address of William Aguiar and that of his legal counsel to confirm the authenticity of your membership in the BDFS.

Even though you claim to have talked to Aguiar over the phone you ignored this request for information.

13) I asked you if you denied he had ever threatened to sue you.

You ignored this question as well.

Under Another Country Heard From I asked.

14) If you had Mr. Aguiar's phone number so I could call him to ask if he agreed with your assertion "the seminar I described probably took place and he might not have been there or aware of it."

You did not provide such information.

Under Comments I asked:

15) Can you point to a single criminal incident report regarding the pimp you supposedly shut down in Maine in 1995?

You answered that no such police report existed. Under On it goes

15a) I then asked for his name so I could run a criminal record check on this pimp confirming his identity.

You did not provide this information.

16) New Question: But why don't you tell me their name, the name of the school and the name of the town in which this took place?

17) I asked In one of your books you were a doorman at a brothel, why are you so obsessed with pimps and prostitution.

You did not answer this question.

In On it goes you opined on the frequency of bare handed kills during military battle, when I asked you:

18) for your branch of service so I could FOIA your own military record to confirm your combat experience.

You did not answer this question.

18a) Please also tell me your dates of service in the military both active and reserve.

I'm glad you claim that Aikido Girl is your love interest, on http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=24842&page=6&pp=15&highlight=aikido+girl posts #63 and #80 a poster claiming to be her says she's never met you in person. So I kinda doubt your assertion. On http://ashidakim.com/AGHomepage.htm you have "her" selling selling memberships and certificates herself so your relationship is of legitimate interest. (aw a junior certificate mill, isn't that sweet :)


LOL

Look at all the time you have wasted demanding that I produce proof of YOUR accusations, LOL You're so good at "tracking me down" but you can't get in touch with any of these other people to verify what I say. Already told you there is no point showing you proof because you refuse to accept it and just use everything to carry on your ranting. Point is, no one cares about any of this. You are just a pseudo-intellectual bully who thinks he is clever. Ain't so, brother, LOL

Ashida Kim

Look at your responses to the above questions, which speak poorly for themselves. If by getting in touch with people you mean Hayes and Aigular, I can get in touch with Hayes via e-mail however you persist in not providing the information that would provide a specific question, i.e. where and when this event happened. I can't locate William A's phone number so I thought you could help me out there, but the name and address of his law firm would be find, you never denied that he threatened to sue you which I find informative. And Radford I am surprised that you are name calling again, didn't you make that complaint concerning moi? I wish you an interesting summer. :P

Samuel Browning


Here You Go...

Nope! Never accused you of calling me names. Just another one of your delusions. So, just to shut you up, here are the dates and proof of the Hayes Seminar infiltration that you don't believe happened. Just like the White House, this is the only documentation I am going to provide in a futile attempt to satisfy you. All the rest of your arguments and allegations are just as full of crap as you are. I can disprove them all. But, I'm tired of answering the same stupid questions over and over and wasting time with turkeys like you who REFUSE TO BELIEVE THE TRUTH even when it bites them on the bum, LOL

CLICK HERE [12] Now, go check with your buddy Hayes, you claim to be able to do that, to confirm this and then come back here and apologize like the whipped dog you are. Don't wonder off the topic! You said this didn't happen and that I couldn't confirm it. Here is the proof that YOU are a liar.

Ashida Kim

Very good Radford! Just as an infant can learn to crawl you are finally starting to learn to post some evidence, and something is better then nothing, even if it helps out with about 2% of your defense. :) I did laugh however at your claim on that link that you could have killed Hayes with a single Phoenix eye strike to the temple. The number of people in this world who can kill with one barefisted stike to the temple are few, (even the old Mike Tyson would have trouble doing this) and given the fact that you later backed out of a fight with Anthony who does not even have a black belt, I greatly doubt you're deadlyness.

Now about my comment that you accused me of calling you names here is the full exchange on this thread.:

[Davis] "As for me and the babe on X-Rated Dragon Lady being "ugly." That's sort of a personal attack, isn't it? Violates the policy, doesn't it?"

[Browning] Yes, a policy you yourself violate here regularly."

Now I have no problem now that I have a date and location asking Mr. Hayes to comment on your story. Granted that his letter was very general and did not indicate that he remembered you from this event, and that you did not appear in the group photo that would prove your case, but no matter, I next look forward to you posting a copy of his dastardly 1984 newsletter in which he calls you names, and the text of the chatroom conversation in which Hayes discusses the incident. (In which incidently Bullshido members were not involved as you previously insisted.)

I will however send this letter in anticipation that he will respond and I will even send it on my official stationary. Good for wrapping fish or suing the bejesus out of someone;) As for an apology, you can dream on :O I have nothing to apologize for, since you don't like to back up any assertions unless forced to, and there are so many matters that still remain unaddressed. Since you seem to have a short attention span here is my favorite list again:)

1) Request for an affidavit, unanswered. If you attempt this one you should specify in the body of the sworn statement that you offered your Florida drivers licence to the notary as proof of your identity, psuedonyms can write books but they can't give sworn statements.:)

2) unanswered

3) unanswered

4) unanswered

5) unanswered

6) unanswered

7) Answered, but unsuccessfully.

8) unanswered (we still need the 1984 Hayes newsletter scanned)

9) satisfied.

10) satisfied

11) unanswered

12) unanswered

13) unanswered

14) unanswered

15)withdrawn and replaced by 15a

15a) unanswered

16) unanswered

17) unanswered

18) unanswered.

18a) unanswered

Talk to you soon.

Samuel Browning

No

Just as I said, no matter what evidence I offer it is never enough to satisfy a troll, LOL

Ashida Kim

Aw Radford, I take it this means "Exit the Ninja", at least from this thread. See ya around.

Samuel Browning

Still A Troll

Alright, you win, I admit it all. Now if you guys could just help me learn to deal with problems by actually addressing them or confronting them instead of running scared I'd be greatful. LOL

Ashida Kim

Quasi-interested bystander here with no affiliation to any martial arts and who has used old-fashioned street fighting techniques to survive the mean streets where the blue collar laboring classes exist.

Started off with a search about Count Dante, having run across a pic of one of his ads of old. Seeing it brought back memories of seeing those ads in print many years ago.

The search led to the ongoing debate/accusations/etc at many Web sites including this one.

Being unbiased with no real concern of the ongoing debate's outcome I tender my opinion....

Me thinks "Kim" would have been much better off to have never rebutted ANY accusations and maintained total silence regarding the issue. Though "Kim" would not have received the mental gratification of replying to his naysayers the end result has merely added fuel to the proverbial fire.

Let "Kim's" mistake be a lesson to all. There are times when one can defend one's position best by not being defensive!!!!!

Okay, with that said...... from an outsider's viewpoint based upon hours of reading.... while "Kim" is not doing anything illegal it appears, in my absolutely worthless opinion, an opinion when combined with a buck will buy thee a lousy cup of coffee....... that "Kim" has taken advantage of a situation to amass wealth.

If my opinion is correct and "Kim" is not doing anything patently illegal, why bother with the situation? None of the naysayers will alter "Kim's" actions. At most, just make it a point to express thine opinions regarding the "unofficial" status of that which "Kim" proffers to the public then get on with thine life.

Okay. Problem settled. Now, all of you go your way and agree to disagree!!!!!

Besides, remember the "100 year rule." In a hundred years nobody will be alive that knew you and even if your name is recognized nobody will TRULY care!!!!!! Who among you truly cares about anyone form 100 years ago? If you even think of someone from that long ago how often do you think of them? For most.... the 100 year rule is applicable. So, why fuss? We will all be dead soon enough and all this fuss and muss will merely be dust in the far corner of the basement of history.

Carry On.

I remain, the Mighty Obbop..... surely much better looking than thee.

Confussed

Hi ok maybe I am crazy but why dose it seem that there are people claming Ashda Kim to be a fake Ninja Master ? when I personally can not find anything on the guy other than people slandering his name left and right, I've looked on Google.com and came up with some information about Ashida but its all relates back to Dojo Press Now what I don't get is if Ashida Kim is a fake like you all clame he is then why do you bitch at him on here ? Go figure ! ! I have been reading everything there is on here and other sites and I have come up with the following:

Ashida Kim is NO FAKE I believe he is the real deal and so what if he goes by another name who dosnt know people who change there name for one reason or the other look at the modle JORDAN now her real name is Katie Price but she changed her name so she could be famious I really don't care what other people think about Ashida Kim why don't you just get a life and stop acting like little children of 7 to 10 year olds..

I remain Ashida Kim

White-Warrior