Talk:Asexuality/Archive 2

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Contents

[edit] Famous alleged asexuals

There ought to be a foot-note, citing a suitable reference, for each and every person included on this list, if the list is to be here at all. —SlamDiego 04:10, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


The list should be removed - I think it causes people to ignore all the factual information in the article, and unless these people have specifically came out and said, "I am asexual" no one can say that they are/were. They could very easily just be people with sexual adversion disorder, or closeted homosexuals, etc.


I agree that people who have never said they were asexual should not be on this list. Also, why on earth is Hitler on this list? Is this supposed to be a cheap insult to Asexuals? [edited to add: I have removed Hitler from this list]

As far as a I can see, David Jaye is the only one on this list that should be there - although if there are other famous people who identify as Asexual, then they should be added to the list, too. - Siobhan, Australia.

[edit] LGBT

Asexual is not LGBT, Dev, but it is LGBTA, a change that is occuring on many college campuses. Like lesbian, gay, and bisexual, asexual is a sexual minority. The classification in this category is correct, though wiki should add an A on the category as that is the current trend today. — Clippen (talk • contribs) 01:33, 2 March 2007 (UTC).

Actually, there are 2 communities now. One is the alternative sex-having community, or the LGB. The other is the KTIA community - Kleinfelters, True-Transsexuals, Intersexed, and Asexual. The first community is for alternative forms of sexuality, where sex is actually being performed. The KTIA contains only birth defects, medical conditions, and a lifestyle that is based on NOT having sex.--65.190.103.147 20:29, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Asexual does not mean celibate

I believe that there should be a distinction.

Asexuality is a general disdain for sexuality whereas a celibate person may have desires for the opposite (or same) sex but choses a sex-free life either for religious or other purposes. For this reason I do not thing that Todd Fuller should be included on this list. Piercetp 21:28, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Variations

I fixed the miscount in the variations sections - someone had set it to three, instead of four

Lack sex drive, but have romantic attraction Lack sex drive and lack romantic attraction Lack romantic attraction, but have sex drive Have sex drive and romantic attraction

[edit] Asexuality in fiction

A small point, but I'd like to bring it up. The article says

Another character, Shigeru Aoba, is strongly implied to be asexual in The End of Evangelion.

Firstly, 'strongly implied' is an unqualified statement, without any sources, so is just someone's opinion. Furthermore, looking at the Shigeru Aoba article itself, it doesn't mention anything about sexuality, only about unwillingness to trust anyone enough to 'open up'.
Similarly, many of the examples of asexuality in fiction seemed to be mislabelled, or at least without sources. Just because Doctor Who and Jughead Jones don't get romantic subplots doesn't mean that they are asexual. The list includes some real examples of asexuality in fiction, so I don't agree that these other ones should be there.
However, I'm a n00b at wikipedia, and I don't want to just hack through the list. What do other people think? Crispypercy 22:34, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, I've followed some links: there is no mention of asexuality on the pages of Immanuel Kant and Emily Bronte, and those were the first two I clicked. The whole section is completely unsourced.Crispypercy 22:42, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
OK, finished checking the list. The only articles referencing asexuality were The Shivers (band), Edward Gorey, Erik Satie, Morrissey and Alberto Santos-Dumont. The rest may as well be all made up, as far as I can tell.Crispypercy 22:55, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to go ahead and edit those names out according to what you looked up (and I double checked) and see what happens. 155.68.101.139 02:31, 25 January 2007 (UTC)Matt

Tintin I really don't think a character like Tintin can be considered 'asexual'. Tintin was an adventure series which did not delve into the sexual or romantic lives of any of its characters, much like any other boy-oriented fiction at the time. The personal lives of all the characters are highly mysterious, to the extent that Tintin appears to have no family, is of indeterminate age, and spends hardly any time reporting, although he is a reporter by profession. Like all personal details, Tintin's sexual life is simply left out, and it is never implied that he is asexual.Cdeuskar 04:43, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Why is it there are so many fictional characters that are defined Asexual if there are only a handful of true famous "real" people that fit the Asexual persona? Does that mean that sexual people have a desire not to be sexual and admire those that are nonsexual, whether in fiction or non-fiction? (Tigerghost 06:53, 26 July 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Celebacy in Christianity

I added the reference to the Apostle Paul some time ago, but it has since been reformatteded and might not make a lot of sense where it is now.

In Biblical theology, there is really only two paths someone can take: marriage which required intercouse between the couple (with the exception of health issues or temporary religious obligations), or singleness which requires celebacy from the person. There is no other route. To be married and to withold conjugal and procreative responsibilities is sinful (Exo 21:10, 1Co 7:5, Heb 13:4, et al.). To be single and to engage in intercouse is also sinful (Act 15:20, Act 15:29, 1Co 6:9).

So it boils down to it being entirely right and even commendable to be single and celebate (1Co 7:8) or to be married and fruitful (see above); just not one or the other. The Apostle Paul, who by inspiration of the Holy Spirit penned 2/3 of the New Testament, led a celebate life.

The Bible and most theologians do not get into the issue of a biological origin for asexuality. It may or may not exist, but it is largely immaterial based upon the Biblical modes of life explained above. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.191.17.168 (talk) 17:20, 27 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Why was Hitler excluded from this list?

All biographies I read concerning the Nazi leader states that he probibly died a virgin. It was said by those close to him that he had no interest in sex. If he did he probibly did not pursue any relationships. His relationship to his mistress Eva Braun was believed to be sexless. Piercetp 06:21, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


One thing that worries me about this page is that it seems to have been edited only by individuals with some personal (and therefore biased) interest in an article on "asexuality". As it stands, it doesn't quite seem to be non-NPOV, but it is still highly suggestive, using vague phrases such as "some people". Fuzzform 03:13, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm moving the neutrality header to the top of the page (out of the section on religious asexuality) because the entire page needs a NPOV overhaul. Please discuss any objections/changes on this page before removing it. Fuzzform 03:21, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ABCD Classification

The page describes Type C's as asexuals who experience neither and doesn't mention Type D. Usually Type C is the type that doesn't see their sex drive and attraction as linked, and Type D experiences neither. Is the page using a different classification system? Agent KGB 22:54, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

It would appear so. If I were able to find a reliable source, I would change it myself right now. If I remember correctly (it's quite possible I don't), the article did use to mention all 4 types. My guess is that an overzealous editor removed Type C. After all, claiming asexuality while having both sexdrive and romantic attraction does sound a bit odd to the untrained ear. Mzyxptlk 22:44, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

After a little more googling I found the reference I was looking for. I'm not entirely sure if my usage of the ref tags is correct, so if someone could take a look at that I would be most grateful. Reverted the A-C system to A-D as per the source and AgentKGB's and my recollection. Mzyxptlk 23:35, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question

If someone has an affectionate orientation for both sexes, but cannot bring themselves to enjoy sexual encounters, are they asexual or are they something else?~ZytheTalk to me! 18:13, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


An Asexual person is someone who does not experience sexual lust. An Asexual can experience phyiscal, emotional and spiritual attraction to another person, but not sexual. I myself am hetro-asexual. That means I am attracted to women in every aspect bar sexual. I can look at a woman and think "she's beautiful" but the "I'd like to have sex with her right now" thought usually doesn't happen for Asexuals, although it can for some on the rare occasion.

"cannot bring themsevels to enjoy sexual encounters" sounds more like a fear of intimacy than Asexuality, if they are wanting to "bring themselves" to doing something sexually, but it may just be the wording of that. Asexuals do not "fear" sexual encounters, they simply do not find interest in them. Asexuality is a broad term for an orintation though, just like hetrosexuality and other forms of sexual and human oriantation, so it's hard to give a solid black and white answer for any issue pertaining to Asexuality.

[edit] Another Asexual in Fiction: Albus Dumbledore?

Is it just me, or Albus Dumbledore of the Harry Potter series of books an Asexual? He isn't reported to have any sexual relationship, not when he was younger nor his later days. He seems far more interested in the running of Hogwarts School than sexuality.

Should he perhaps be added the list of possible Asexuals in fiction?

It's just you. I don't think the characters in childrens books generally have a lot of sex. Greswik 13:43, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Asexuality not a part of the LGBT

Removed rant irrelevant to the article.. 65.190.103.147 16:14, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Religious Section

I noticed the religious section was removed. The content of the original section may not have been good, but I do think there should be some mention of it. There are two reasons really a.) Most of the wiki articles dealing with sexual lifestyles have some reference to the religious or cultural attitudes of the practice b.) Many, perhaps most, of the world's religions have some teaching, theological tennant or practice that involves celebacy. 68.118.72.8 18:51, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


You do realize that asexuality is completely different from celibacy right? An asexual person cannot be celibate because celibacy requires abstaining from desire, and asexuals don't have the desire to abstain from.
Absolutely there is a difference. However, the definition of celebacy is not "abstaining from desire," but is rather (from the dictionary):
• an unmarried status
• chastity; abstaining from sexual relations (as because of religious vows)
An asexual person could certainly take part in a religious calling or tradition that involves the celibate life. 71.93.238.212 17:26, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


Absolutely they could, but a person who abstains from sex due to a religious calling or tradition isn't automatically asexual. An asexual person can be celebate (sorry, I disagree with my learned colleague above; you can be asexual but not celebate), but a celebate person isn't always an asexual. 121.45.241.202 10:24, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bring back the list

I think whoever deleted the list had the wrong idea. Even if asexuality was highly speculative for some of those people, it's not totally baseless to call them such, and a lot of them are really interesting people. Haplolology Talk/Contributions 01:25, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Differentiate between "sexual" and "romantic".

I think there should be an effort to differentiate between romantic feelings and sexual feelings pertaining to asexuals. Many asexuals desire romantic relationships but not sexual in nature. As we all know, sex and romance are not the same. I have replaced a reference of "sexual/romantic" to "sexual and/or romantic" to better describle how asexual human mentality can work.

[edit] Rewrite

Does this page still need a rewrite, or can the above tag finally be removed? - ТģØ(Đ {ŧª∫Қ ↑¤ Мә} 17:13, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I have carried out a reorganization amounting to a more or less full rewrite of this page, adding quite a bit of additional cited research. The article was in a rather chaotic state and lacking in citations. If I have removed anything vitally important it can be added back in, but a new structure was badly needed. Paul Cox 02:34, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Check your user page. ~ ТģØ(Đ {ŧª∫Қ ↑¤ Мә} 14:16, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Replace list

Hey, here is a suggestion, replace the list of fictional asexuals with documented and cited, true cases of people who are asexual such as John Harvey Kellogg, Ann Lee or Edward Gorey. (Tigerghost 06:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC))

None of the above are diagnosed Asexuals. All the evidence is questionable at best. They weren't even self-described asexuals. Xombie 16:11, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The List of Fictional Asexuals

I am not sure if it belongs in there as a list per se, but fictional is a problem as you assume that a character in a book, play, show, or film being asexual. You are only given a limited timefame in which to make assumptions. I will place it here for now until this debate is resolved. (Tigerghost 11:45, 5 August 2007 (UTC))

  • I think the number one asexual fictional character of all time has to be Mrs. Dalloway in the book of the same name by Virginia Woolf. Septimus Warren Smith is another character in that book who also appears to be asexual. I think both characters reflect Woolf's own problems with sexuality, at least when it came to men, including her husband, Leonard.
"Asex was really nothing but an umbrella term for a broad group of philosophies, styles of dress, cosmetic-surgical changes, and deep-biological alterations. The only thing that one asex person necessarily had in common with another was the view that vis gender parameters (neural, endocrine, chromosomal and genital) were the business of no one but verself, usually (but not always) vis lovers, probably vis doctor, and sometimes a few close friends. What a person actually did in response to that attitude could range from as little as ticking the 'A' box on census forms, to choosing an asex name, to breast or body-hair reduction, voice timbre adjustment, facial resculpting, empouchment (surgery to render the male genitals retractable), all the way to full physical and/or neural asexuality, hermaphroditism, or exoticism." (Distress, paperback ed., p. 45)
  • Herge's most famous character Tintin has no apparent romantic or sexual attraction to any other human beings.
  • Samuel R. Delany's 1969 short story "Aye, and Gomorrah..." depicts a society where astronauts (or "Spacers") are rendered sexless because cosmic radiation would otherwise damage their reproductive organs. Delaney's Spacers seek out "frelks", or individuals with a fetish for the asexual Spacers, and exploit them for money and amusement -- or possibly out of loneliness.
  • In the original Doctor Who television series (1963–1989), the Doctor was almost always depicted as asexual despite his regular stream of attractive young female companions. Since the First Doctor's initial companion, Susan Foreman, was introduced as his granddaughter, it is often assumed, but never confirmed, that the Doctor had had at one time in his early life a partner of the opposite sex with whom he had at least one child. The 1996 Doctor Who television movie caused some controversy among Doctor Who fans by having the Eighth Doctor passionately kiss, more than once, his companion Grace. In the new series (2005–), the Doctor is occasionally flirtatious, and has a romantically tinged relationship with his companion Rose Tyler. The episode "Human Nature" specifically contrasts his ability to love as a Time Lord as being decidedly different from that of a human, the possibility of romance without the core attraction. Actor David Tennant who currently plays the Tenth Doctor, has assured fans that the relationship is still celibate or "a love story without the shagging." as he puts it. See also The Doctor and romance.
  • Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes is often regarded as another quintessentially asexual character. While his friend Doctor Watson is portrayed as charming and very much attracted to and, in the manner of a stereotypical Victorian gentleman, gallant towards various female characters, and indeed marries at least once, the detective dismisses dealings with women outside of his specific business as 'Your department, Watson' and even once sneeringly tells the doctor that 'the most winning woman' he ever knew committed infanticide for the insurance money. The story "A Scandal in Bohemia" (first published in the Strand Magazine in July 1891), however, introduces a female character whom Holmes admires excessively (she outwits him), and it opens with a frank explanation of the character's asexuality as it is seen by the narrator — as (almost) always, Doctor John Watson:
"To Sherlock Holmes she is always the woman. I have seldom heard him mention her under any other name. In his eyes she eclipses and predominates the whole of her sex. It was not that he felt any emotion akin to love for Irene Adler. All emotions, and that one particularly, were abhorrent to his cold, precise but admirably balanced mind. He was, I take it, the most perfect reasoning and observing machine that the world has seen, but as a lover he would have placed himself in a false position. He never spoke of the softer passions, save with a gibe and a sneer. They were admirable things for the observer – excellent for drawing the veil from men's motives and actions. But for the trained reasoner to admit such intrusions into his own delicate and finely adjusted temperament was to introduce a distracting factor which might throw a doubt upon all his mental results. Grit in a sensitive instrument, or a crack in one of his own high-power lenses, would not be more disturbing than a strong emotion in a nature such as his."
  • In the long-running Granada television series starring Jeremy Brett as Holmes, one feature-length episode, The Master Blackmailer (1992) — expanded from Conan Doyle's short story "The Adventure of Charles Augustus Milverton" — had the detective seemingly developing feelings for a woman for once, but only while in character: disguised as a working man in order to infiltrate the household of the blackmailer, Milverton. Embarrassed and uncomfortable, he is nevertheless prepared to go as far as engagement in pursuit of the villain. Once out of the disguise, though, he reverts to normal and is dismissive of the poor girl.
  • In the K. Sandra Fuhr's online strips Boy Meets Boy and Friendly Hostility, the cynical Collin Sri'Vastra claims to be asexual. He later forms a relationship with his best friend Kailen "Fox" Maharassa, but his romantic/affectionate levels appear to be rather low, at least at the beginning.
  • One of the central characters of Isabel Allende's The House of Spirits, Clara, could be construed as asexual. In her later years, she expresses a lack of interest in coitus, commenting that it only makes her bones ache.
  • Nny from the comic Johnny the Homicidal Maniac is largely viewed as asexual, as he shows no sexual drive and, in several instances, shows disgust at the mere thought of sexual activity. He is quoted: "I spend enough time trying not to touch or be touched", he views sexual behavior as "submission to physical longing, all seek to enslave you". He aims to go one step further with this belief towards the end of the comic when he leaves to achieve total desensitization to his emotions which he believed would free him.
  • Haruhi Fujioka in the series Ouran High School Host Club does not show interest in either sex. Throughout it, many members of both sexes are attracted to her (she is androgynous in appearance and often mistaken for a boy) but she does not appear to show any interest in return, and nor is it entirely clear if she realises that other people are attracted to her.
  • Jughead Jones was, for several decades, perhaps the only character of the Archie gang who is not romantically interested in the opposite sex.
  • In John Irving's A Prayer for Owen Meany, the narrator appears to be asexual. There is a brief mention that, in his teens, he is introduced to several female peers and is clumsy and ineffective in his attempts to make love to them. He remains a virgin when the book ends. In early adolescence he is tied up face-to-face with a major character called Hester (who jokingly calls herself "Hester the molester"). Although both find the experience uncomfortable and embarrassing, Hester goes on to have a sexual relationship with the title character. Later in the book, the narrator is referred to by others as a "non-practicing homosexual", a term also used by the board of trustees to describe Dr. Wilbur Larch in Irving's novel The Cider House Rules.
  • Kouta Hirano's character Montana Max is asexual in both of his incarnations, as he appears in two works that have no connection to each other. In the graphic novel Coyote, which is, ironically, pornographic, Max claims that it was his mother's prostitution in his family's one-room home which alienated him from sexuality, and that the only thing he cares for is war. Max is featured in Hirano's later work, Hellsing, despite its having no ties to Coyote, as an almost identically apparently asexual character. In both works, his mental state is generally abnormal, as he has an obsessive love for war in all its manifestations, regardless of any suffering on his part.
  • Kerewin Holmes, lead character of Keri Hulme's novel The Bone People also confesses her own asexuality to Joe, and vehemently denies it being result of any kind of abuse at any stage in her life.
  • Spyros Deloglou (played by Giorgos Kapoutzidis), one of the main characters of the Greek sitcom Sto Para Pente, is commented by Dahlia to be asexual, after he confessed he had sexual intercourse only "one time and a half".
  • Paksenarrion Dorthansdotter, protagonist of the Tolkien-esque military fantasy trilogy The Deed of Paksenarrion, is an asexual woman. She has close friendships with men and women, but mentions 'she never wanted to' be with anyone sexually.
  • In the science fiction webcomic Saturnalia, one of the main characters and members of PACER, Ellipsis, is identified as asexual beginning in chapter 10, although she prefers the term "non-sexual."
  • In John Steinbeck's East of Eden Cathy is implied to be an asexual person. The author goes on to include his thoughts on the existence of asexuals:

What freedom men and women could have, were they not constantly tricked and trapped and enslaved and tortured by their sexuality! The only drawback in that freedom is that without it one would not be a human. One would be a monster. –John Steinbeck, East of Eden (1952), p. 74

  • In the novel Hard Love by Ellen Wittlinger, the character John Galardi Jr aka Gio tends to shy away from romantic relationships and during the course of the novel only develops one with a lesbian named Marisol. Many times he states that he has "no attraction to men or women."
  • In the Showtime television series Dexter, the benign murderer and protagonist, Dexter, begins the series as asexual. He later becomes sexually active, but without any substantial or noticeable drive.

[edit] Hello.

Talk page... implying I will talk. Okay.

My friend and I were talking... I don't want sex, right. I didn't know there was a term, or there was even people "like me". I look around and find asexual. I guess I am, whatever society would like to say. I like girls, I look at them. But I just don't want sex. No sexual activity as far as penis/vagina interactment. I haven't whacked off in like 5 years, and I'm 18 now. I do like to touch girls, and cuddle.

I'd just like to say that I'd never want to be part of the TLGB or whatever it is. I'm not a fag, and I'm not perverted. This seems to throw two huge blocks at entering that group; blocks I'm happy about.

Just wanted to give some views! Goodbye. :) 72.192.62.77 14:48, 20 August 2007 (UTC)