Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zlatko Krasni

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. WjBscribe 00:31, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Zlatko Krasni

Zlatko Krasni (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Please see [[1]] for further comments that lead to this AfD. The article was prodded earlier, but removed, so AfD as no notability-- EvokeNZ 10:50, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

• Weak Keep. Assessing a poet's notability is not easy, but imo this one may just make the cut. The Ghits about him aren't many (they rarely are for contemporary poets from small countries) but they suggest that the guy is a respected poet (e.g. [2], [3], [4]). Anyways, the article needs to better sourced if it is to stay. Stammer 13:17, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - I put in the some info from the Spanish page you found, as well as something from a conference in Freiberg, Germany which seems to imply that he is a department chair at the University of Belgrade. I think that he is notable, if these sources are considered ok. I'd still like to see a more credible source. "Slatko Krasni" gives one Ghit, are there any other spellings one should look for? Smmurphy^(Talk) 20:57, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, I fail to see how articles can be put up for deletion which contain solid information about important matters like poetry while the English-language wikipedia abounds in such crap as self-congratulatory notes on such infamous topics as American baseball ... Anyway, I put in some more references, including the issue of Krasni's position within Serbian civil society, where his standing seems to be good; I do hope that more information is forthcoming from people actually capable of reading his work in the original. I strongly urge the editors to preserve this article and to prevent mere baseball fans from interfering in matters of poetry. (Klaus rabe 21:57, 17 April 2007 (UTC))

• Comment - I don't appreciate your insults, I do not like nor know much about baseball, and even if I did I don't see how that is a reflection on someone's character. I searched the Sr Wiki and it returned no hits either [[5]]. So if the poet is so famous, then how is it we cannot find anything about him? If you have a look at the first link in the translation page (in the AfD above), even a search in Serbian Google returns very few hits. The extra information you keep writing on this article lacks NPOV and is missing citations. = EvokeNZ 22:56, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

• Keep There does seem to be some published works. The Library of Congress catalog has the following:

Krasni, Zlatko, 1951- Košuta u duši : soneti / Zlatko Krasni. 1997

Krasni, Zlatko, 1951- O melanholiji evropskog intelektualca : satirični i drugi ogledi / Zlatko Krasni. 1997

Krasni, Zlatko, 1951- Stazama zmijskog jezika / Zlatko Krasni. 1991

Krasni, Zlatko, 1951- Tvrđava / Zlatko Krasni. 1984

I have added these titles to the WP page. I think this certainly demonstrates his real existence. There may be a transliteration problem, for the British Library catalog, which transliterates a little differently sometimes, give nobody at all with the name Krasni. On the basis of the material already found and these four books, I think it's a Keep. DGG 23:31, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Keep. Cleanup and cite (more) sources. The initial article was mostly a free translation of the first link (in spanish) provided by Stammer above, and by EvokeNZ at Wikipedia:Pages needing translation into English#Zlatko_Krasni (where I come from). That a Serbian poet is featured in a Colombian poetry event (that's what the said linked site is about) is a good hint pointing to international acknowlwedgment of his work. - Nabla 23:44, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

well, folks, there is much to be said for critical assessment, but my point was, dear EvokeNZ (no insult was intended), that there seems to be a huge heap of rubbish in wikipedia once you just hit the "surprise button" and wait for anything useful; while even a short entry about a poet of some standing, even if clearly not nobel material, should be given a welcoming nod and not awake the sort of annihilation instincts that sadly fail to reduce the rubbish-heap in the case of BASEBALL or of totally irrelevant hollywood b-movies. so please accept that zlatko krasni exists and has survived even his latest illness; as it is, there being a lot of cranks about, his actual address and telephone numbers could not possibly be publicized. but don't worry, I have them in my notebook. of course it is interesting to find that zlatko's name does not appear more often on serbian websits; but just you try and find such things as programmes of writers conferences etc., people there certainly seem to be lagging behind in these things. but writers, unlike gangsters, do not profit from being bombed, as you may realize. (Klaus rabe 00:14, 18 April 2007 (UTC))

• • The fact that you have his personal details in your address book confirms that your additions to the article lack NPOV. We need references for the information listed. This has nothing to do with whether it's a known poet or not, it's to do with finding any information to liste on the page. If all we have to go on is your personal knowledge, then it's not good enough. - EvokeNZ 00:37, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I wrote to EvokeNZ about this; look at his talk-page. His annihilation instincts go a little far, I think; he seems to be provoked by my comments. This is unfortunate and I apologize for any pique that I hqave caused him to feel, publicly. But please ask him to explain his attack on this article; I for my part should welcome any improvement, by some Bosnian editor from Sarajevo, maybe? Or by someone who reads Serbian, which I don't. I cannot do much more than what I did so far. (Klaus rabe 01:47, 18 April 2007 (UTC))

Looking back, I think the problem is unfamiliarity. That isn't a reason to delete, but it's still in good faith. DGG 05:17, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I've responded to the note with pointing Klaus to Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons - EvokeNZ 06:04, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Keep but Clean up and Reference. I now accept that the article can stay, however unreferenced tags must stay until the article has been cleaned up with citations and correct tone for an encyclopedia. Obviously and poetry reflects.. are personal judgements not those of an encyclopedia.EvokeNZ 06:17, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

• Keep now that some information beyond the rather biased and scanty material that was here before has been supplemented and cleaned up. I'm the one who said I could find next to nothing about the guy using any of the normal routes, and not even in Serbian, so thanks DGG for finding his works from the LCC. I hope that the article can be cleaned up so that it attains an encyclopedic level instead of the having links to German wikipedia articles stuck in the middle of text on the English wikipedia and the first paragraph needs to be cleaned up so that all the non-subject sentences are taken out or given subjects. I still wonder though why this guy is almost unknown on the Internet if he's published so much. -Yupik 21:48, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

By the way, are all his books self-published? Many people have been deleted for that in the past. -Yupik 21:50, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks to all of you for helping me on - beyond controversy, which was unintentional; of course, EvokeNZ is perfectly right about the problem of living persons: for instance, I should have avoided pointing to the poem published on the pro-Milosevic website since I am quite sure that it was put there without the writer's consent, but seeing that so much pressure was put up for references on the web ... Anyway, the topic cannot be avoided. But on this as on other topics concerning this article, there undoubtedly exists far better material; as for the references being in German ... sorry, but this world is predominantly not English-speaking: to limit references to English sources would radically diminish the credibility and reliabiloity of the English wikipedia. As for Youpik's question, you are right there, but Krasni is a recognized voice and has never been self-published (which, in some cases - for instance that of British poet James Fenton - would not indicate an absence of recognition, but a move against the way that literature is edited at a particular point in history; the same, of course, applies to Zamizdat publications). I do hope the article will be further developed by others; I must admit that I did not do any kind of research before meeting the person concerned since I rely on fist-hand impressions when I decide about whether I want further contact with a poet or not. (Klaus rabe 22:13, 18 April 2007 (UTC))

I don't think that any of us care that *references* (i.e., in a reference list at the end of the article in the normal fashion) would be in German, but links to German-language articles in the German wikipedia from the English wikipedia, I for one, object to even though I am a polyglot. If you would like to have them translated, please add them to Wikipedia:Translation, although the German community seems to be overwhelmed already by the translations there. If you have problems using the Translation request template, let me know and I'll list the articles for you as it is not the clearest of templates. -Yupik 22:31, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.