Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Zenra

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Seraphimblade Talk to me 03:05, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Zenra

Zenra (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Zenra is Japanese for completely nude. Dictdef. Tokek 14:07, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Keep. The article asserts that zenra is also a subgenre of pornography, and a quick Google search seems to lend some credence to this. I'm at work right now so I am not willing to research a pornographic topic any deeper than a Google search, but the impression I get is that this article is in need of sourcing but sources may indeed exist. Arkyan • (talk) 15:17, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete dictionary entry. Yakuman (数え役満) 19:18, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep for 3 months; as above, this does seem to be an actual genre of Japanese porn. That should be enough time for someone to find sources, and if they don't, it should be renominated then. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 19:19, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment So, you're biased towards "keep" even though you say you haven't found any credible sources? This article has existed for about a year already, and the {{unreferenced}} tag has been added since 5 February. This AFD nomination is based upon my perspective as a person fluent in Japanese that what the article asserts — "zenra" being a credible and unique subgenre of pornography — is totally false; instead, it is merely a porn related Japanese term. Not all terms that are capable of returning a bunch of porn results on Google should be deemed encyclopedic. —Tokek 22:50, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep It seems sourcable, and that is sufficient for a keep, assuming sources will be found. DGG 01:50, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment: Adding references:
    - WP:DICTDEF (Wikipedia is not a dictionary).
    - Yahoo! Japan Dictionary (Yahoo! Japan 辞書): "zenra: To be wearing nothing. maruhadaka (synonym). suppadaka (synonym)."
    - Just created an entry for zenra at wiktionary [1].
    - Pre-existing articles include Pornography in Japan and Nudity. Is there something about the word for "all nude" in Japanese that has potential for an independent Wikipedia article with significant amount of content not already covered in these two articles? No.
Also, noting so far that the "keep" votes are based merely upon suspicion that it may be notable.—Tokek 23:17, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep, sort of. with quite a few comments

From what I am reading here, the disputes seems to be whether "zenra" counts as a genre. The majority of the commentators seems to agree that IF it is a genre, then the entry should be kept, and IF it is not a genre, then it should be deleted.

Well taking the word literally, a genre is nothing more than a type. Any collective with some features that one can use to distinguishes members of the collective from non-members can count as a genre. And certainly, judging from the description here -assuming they are correct- one can distinguish between zenra and non-zenra.

I am Taiwanese, and guessing from the kanji, zenra seems to mean nothing more than "fully nude" or "completely naked", making it nothing more than an adjective in Japanese. This, however, does not mean that it cannot constitute a genre, insofar as this is a English entry, the fact that many (judging from the number of google returns) English- speaking porn watchers recognize "zenra" as a genre -even if this is due to a completely mistaken understanding of Japanese- , would be enough to justify zenra as a genre. Basically, even if 全裸 is not a genre, zenra can be a genre.

Basically, i support the contention that zenra can be a genre assuming that the descriptions are correct.

However, we must also take into consideration the wikipedia's rules, namely, no original material. While i am pretty sure zenra films meets the criteria for "genre-hood" according to the descriptions, i am not really sure how many people actually recognize it as such. So in the end, it really depends on people who watch a hell lot of porn...


—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.161.69.231 (talk) 00:16, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

  • Comment I almost agree with what you say this discussion is mainly about. This discussion IMHO is primarily about whether the topic is worthy of an encyclopedic article. Whether or not "zenra" is a "genre" is just one aspect that is being discussed. Another aspect being looked into is: given the fact that there are other related / overlapping articles such as Nudity and Pornography in Japan to mention just a few, is there a reason to have a separate, somewhat peculiar article for total nudity in Japan?
Also, I have a feeling that you are confusing "genre" with "jargon". This AFD request is NOT claiming that the term is a neologism. It IS a real word. Even if random Japanese word X was not a term commonly used in the English speaking world, that fact alone does not disqualify it from being worthy of a Wikpedia article. OTOH, the "genre argument" alone does not exclude this article from being worthy of deletion. 全裸 pronounced in Mandarin could potentially be an English jargon, but would the pronunciation deserve an article of its own? Do we need to translate "stark naked" into every language on Earth, then add an article to Wikipedia for each? This article does not seem to be capable of filling any niche on Wikipedia, and it has no potential for growth beyond its current state as a dictionary definition especially because the definition is too simple and culuturally totally non-unique. (By policy, new users and IP users can't vote.)—Tokek 12:10, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Keep This isn't just a word, it is a style of porn of girls doing normal activities while nude. Much different than a dictionary definition, or just girls posing naked. MightyAtom 01:12, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment I think people are really getting sidetracked by the "genre" discussion. A term can be a genre and a dictionary definition article at the same time, too. Any article can provide a dictionary definition-like explanation for a given term. Anyone can argue that "all nude" translated in random language X can be considered a "genre". And of course, since it's a porn-related word, we inevitably get tons of Google hits (Google hit count doesn't matter too much in this case as I'm not arguing that this is a non-existant word!). The question is whether there is any potential for real growth beyond a dictionary definition article, in a way that makes sense considering that we already have articles such as Pornography in Japan and Nudity. —Tokek 12:07, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Delete The word "zenra" in this context is used to describe a state --- "not wearing a piece of cloth on", in the shortest, handiest and catchiest possible way; not more, not less. It is also a very convenient and effective way to improve one's SEO. You will probably not want to type "a video of a person skating without wearing a piece of cloth on" when googling, if you are looking for a "nude skater video" or "nude skating video." The word is used perfectly responding to such needs.--OhMyDeer 12:08, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Keep - There are significant amount of Zenra videos (which I admit I have seen some of them), in which I think it is significant enough to be certified as a notable genre. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 23:26, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment Just added a ref from a japanese newspaper; how does this affect peoples views? Urso 15:20, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.