Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/York Hiking Club

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Rjd0060 (talk) 21:47, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] York Hiking Club

York Hiking Club (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) (delete) – (View log)

Non-notable organization, just a small local club. Article does not contain any references, just a single external link to its own site. Though the article states the organization has been around for what amounts to be more than 75 years, age is not a criteria for notability, especially for an organization that is generally not considered notable under Wikipedia guidelines. Besides, there are no off-site references provided to document this. Hellno2 (talk) 00:03, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

  • Delete nn, unsourced. JJL (talk) 00:13, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete as above, no evidence of notability either in article or on the YHC website. Nasica (talk) 00:38, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete, no evidence of notability per WP:ORG from WP:RS. --Kinu t/c 00:47, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete as a nn local club that doesn't pass WP:ORG. Bfigura (talk) 00:54, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Delete. Complete absence of third party independent sources confirms lack of any notability whatsoever. Ohconfucius (talk) 04:46, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Save. Updating page is ongoning with other data. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.28.64.254 (talk) 13:47, 3 June 2008 (UTC) — 208.28.64.254 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • Save. Did not know that there was such a time factor our supporters will do best to meat your needs. It is not a small deal as we have 1200 people visit us weekly and we have a "ridge runner" (Safety Ranger) and the first to ever do the A.T. and many more things that make us the most active club for hiking in South Central PA. We have people up from MD. and down form Duncannon,PA. We have over 250 people. And have had our members and club published many times.Hikingb5 (talk) 22:09, 3 June 2008 (UTC) — Hikingb5 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
    • Third-party coverage from reliable sources would be helpful. Please note that existence does not imply notability. --Kinu t/c 00:15, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
    • And also, numbers do not mean automatic notability either, as in numbers of members, or age as I originally mentioned.Hellno2 (talk) 04:47, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Will keep on trying. Still do not understand, I have looked around and Wikipeadia has 1-3 years old entries on same type hiking clubs as us with less or no ref data and one bought two domain names to cover their trail building work and those are their two ref. listings. They refer to their own web sites as ref or third party info. I have seen dozens of trail clubs with 3-8 sentances for their entier entry on Wikipeadia. We are part of the "Susquehanna A.T. system of hiking/Trail clubs" just like the other one you have on Wikipeadia south of here. Guess there could now be a gap in your coverage of A.T. suporting trail building clubs documented.

This is why we and our suporters have till now not pushed to add all this info as till this week we did not know this. Now that we are under the light we will try our best to be more than equal to the many other Wikipeadia hiking/trail pages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.28.64.254 (talk) 12:09, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

    • We have been published in the local two newspapers for our helpfull website that suported the countys parks before they had a website and on the clubs many works in trail building and all. But they are not on the main newspapers websites any more due to months or years since published what can i do to use this info? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.28.64.254 (talk) 12:20, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment: The "references" that have been added to the article over the past day or so seem more like advertisements for the club and its events. An advertisement is not a valid reference. A local retail business that advertises in the local paper is not considered notable on the basis of these ads, neither is a club. Hellno2 (talk) 14:47, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Guess I am just dumb as a post! Will keep on trying. We have held meeting tonight to try and figure out what to do. Will talk with our friends at the The Appalachian Trail Conservancy and KTA (ALL hiking and trail clubs group) who told us to expand the wiki page you at wiki started. Guess my mistake was not thinking it was all about information and helping the reader and now is it about writing it like a biography of a dead person or a river. If we are such a bad listing for Wikipedia then why did I find our clubs name listed without any data? Why are there so many others listed just like us? I will try by just adding more and you can tell me to remove it. Or keep it. I have spent hours reading your rules and from what I see 30% of Wikipedia content does not meet the criteria. This is harder than doing my taxes and I have done web work for 11 years. Guess I need to stop using other wiki pages as a guide as they appear to be all wrong found at least 25 all hiking/trail clubs. So frustrating. May just delete it mayself as it may not be worth the humiliation and time.Hikingb5 (talk) 01:21, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment: In all, this page, and its references, seem mostly like an advertisement. Some of the references now given do not even mention "York Hiking Club" in a search. A good reference would describe the club's importance to the world or at least to its region at a neutral point of view, not promote it. Also, the one user who has been writing here, Hikingb5, has been saying "we" here throughout, thereby implying s/he is a member of the club itself (a Conflict of Interest). The account seems to be a Single-purpose account dedicated to saving this article. Hellno2 (talk) 05:12, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
p.s. I know notability has nothing to do with level of fame or popularity. But just making a point, I live in Timonium, Maryland, which is only 40 miles away from York, and I am a hiking enthusiast, familiar with all the trails in the area. Yet I have never heard of the York Hiking Club until I randomly came across this article one day recently.Hellno2 (talk) 05:29, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Please, this is a no-brainer for deletion but also a case where the editor involved obviously does not understand WP policy or notability guidelines. Maybe we can spend some time educating the editor so they at least understand why their club can't have an article here. --Laser brain (talk) 05:47, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm talking to the author on his/her talk page now. Ideally we can find references to prove notability, if it exists, and if not, explain our policies. Creating a new articles is a daunting & difficult task for any new editor, so we shouldn't be surprised if an editor unknowing errs in the process. --Bfigura (talk) 13:42, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
    • You are corectI expanded this yhc entry to help Wiki and found myself in this pile of delelte dletete delete. I assumed that if so many other clubs have long standing entrys with no real refrances etc and that our name was there I should fix it by making it more than a sentance long thing. I am not trying so much to save it as not have someone mess with it in a negative way. As I said my big mistake was using 25 plus other hiking club entries as templats of what to do and add to this page. Guess if they are all wrong then our page is all wrong. We die and they live as they are not being deleted.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.28.64.254 (talk) 12:16, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

    • bye you win!
    • Just hope you may even for a second belive that I am not the evil one you all think I am. I did not understand what Wikipedia is even though I have used it for years. At this point I have learnd that I a webmaster and web user of 12 years have no clue as to what Wikipeadia is. Guess it is like the old Referance vol. 1-13 books of the 1970s. I made the muistake of thinking it was an all knowing about all things.
 Our club is as important to the beginings of the Appalachian Trail and 120 mile Mason Dixon Trail as the PATC that you have listed on Wiki. We have built it from the beginings and give many things back to the comunuity for public hiking. Without us and KTA and other groups there would be 3,500 fewer miles of trail in PA!
 Guess some day I will figure you guys out. Do you have somthing that does not look like a 50 page leagal doc that I could read to gain a clue. All I have been linked to so far read so lawer like are hard to get a feel for what Wiki really is. Any info pages that are people friendly and not leagle stuff?Hikingb5 (talk) 13:01, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
    • BTW having this Wiki page does nothing to advertise our club or website we get over 1200 hits a week and this page only distracts from the Google/search listings for people to click on us. I say this to respond to those that think we did this for advertisement reasons. We did it for one reason to keep someone ells from creating it and thus they could have flamed the group for the fun of it. I had seen how other clubs pages had been flamed or edited wrongly. That's all we did this for was to keep it factual. And keep control over our name.208.28.64.254 (talk) 13:31, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Comment: I am actually reviewing those other articles on hiking, canoeing, and other outdoors clubs that Hikingb5 is talking about, and I have found several of them do exist, yet do not seem to meet notability requirements. In the next week or so, I am considering putting them into a bundled AFD. Hellno2 (talk) 15:04, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.