Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Xenu (second nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Speedy Keep. The subject is entirely notable, evidenced by the lawsuits and investigative journalism. The article is well written (an FA). Xiner (talk, email) 00:17, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Xenu

Xenu (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

The subject of this article is a mythological or fictional character in the Scientology "Space Opera", orginally written by Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard. Although the article is very well researched and mostly well written, it does not establish the notability of the subject. Neither the article nor the secondary sources cited by it say that Xenu was a real person. If he is considered to be a fictional character then he seems to be not notable as such since the stories written about him by Hubbard were not published for the general public. If Xenu is considered as a mythological figure then he also does not seem so notable considering that so few people believe in him, only a few people who have taken advanced Scientology training; not even Scientologists in general which is a small group to begin with. The information of Xenu is already covered in a WP article on Scientology Space Opera. I think this one could be deleted with no loss to WP readers. Thanks for your consideration. Steve Dufour 20:07, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. Subject is notable as the central figure of a controversy surrounding Scientology. --Trovatore 20:12, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

The controversy itself is already covered in several other articles. Steve Dufour 20:24, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

• Strong Keep A non-Christian might consider Jesus to be mythological, but that doesn't mean the article must be deleted. With this way of thinking, we have to delete all articles referring to works of fiction. Also, Xenu satisfies notability criterion 1 perfectly.--Orthologist 20:19, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Belief in Jesus has had great influence on history and culture, Xenu not. Thanks. Steve Dufour 20:24, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

• Speedy Keep. The classification of Xenu as fictional, mythological or the number of people who actually believe in him is irrelevant to Wikipedia:Notability. The article meets the primary notability criterion: "A topic is notable if it has been the subject of at least one substantial or multiple non-trivial published works that are reliable and independent of the subject." AndroidCat 20:21, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

But the point of these published works was to say that Xenu did not exist and that it is silly to believe in him. In other words, that he is non-notable. Why should he have a WP article? Steve Dufour 20:26, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

• Speedy keep. Need I remind people that this is a featured article? This nomination is bordering on disrupting Wikipedia to make a point. I recommend closing it as a WP:SNOWBALL case. -- ChrisO 20:33, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Would that be a snowball in a volcano filled with exploding hydrogen bombs? :-)

It's a good article, but about a non-notable subject. In fact the main point of the article seems to be to explain the non-notability of its subject. It convinced me. :-) Steve Dufour 20:41, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Let me remind you again. A lot of people believe that, it's true. There are some people who believe in Zeus here in Greece, that doesn't mean we have to delete tha article because nobody or very few believe in him anymore. Lastly, Scientologists know the story of Xenu, the new members don't know the details, but everyone knows it roughly, otherwise how would it have made it to South Park? Lastly, I know it sounds absurd, but a lot of fiction works do, that doesn't mean we must delete them. The main point of the article asserts its absurdity, not its notability, that's done in the lead.--Orthologist 22:16, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Zeus has had a considerable influence on human culture. I would not object to an article on Xenu as a pop culture fad, with mentions of South Park and so forth. But Xenu as written about by Hubbard and believed in by a few Scientologists does not seem like a notable subject to me. Steve Dufour 22:22, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

You don't understand. I'm referring to other religious figures to show you that every religious belief, as long as it's legitimate, must be included. Moreover, the Invisible Pink Unicorn has hardly had any effect on human culture, but, as it has been mentioned by other sources, it must be included, even if it's a satire religion, which the doctrine of Xenu isn't anyway. Also see WP:SK, Applicability, criterion #2, which I'm afraid dismissed your AfD as "frivolous".--Orthologist 22:33, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

The topic of "Belief in Xenu" is already covered in Space opera (Scientology). "Xenu" could redirect there where all the information a person would need is found. Xenu himself does not need his own article, IMO. Steve Dufour 22:46, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

• Speedy Keep this should never have been nominated in the first place. --Phrost 22:11, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

• Speedy Keep I fail to see why a featured article should be deleted. --Filippo Argenti 22:59, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

  Because it's subject is non-notable. The article itself is good. Steve Dufour 00:11, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

• Speedy Keep and strong censure for the nominator for violation of WP:POINT. -- Antaeus Feldspar 00:13, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.