Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wilson Lee Flores

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. - Bobet 12:34, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wilson Lee Flores

The subject is a newspaper/magazine columnist and has a real estate business in the Philippines. His only notable achievement was receiving a Palanca Award in 1987, but very few Palanca Award recipients have entries here. There are 281 Google hits for his name, in English, but only 65 unique hits. - Baseball,Baby! balls•strikes 09:56, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Comment: if the Palanca Award is as prestigious and significant as the page makes it out to be, why shouldn't we have articles on the recipients? up+land 11:17, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep only to cleanup and WP:V such claims. If not, let me know and I'll change my vote. Zos 18:53, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
      • Keep The awards mentioned are quite prestigious and beyond reproach in integrity. This unsigned comment was the second generated by 124.106.237.43 (talk · contribs).
      • CommentThe writer has won three Palanca literary awards (not one as mentioned by the anonymous complainant) and he has also won 5 times in the Catholic Mass Media Awards in three years for his columns. The CMMA is the most prestigious mass media awards in the Philippines, testament to a writer's integrity and quality of writings. The Philippine Star is a major newspaper, and he writes a column here. It is strange that a person would complain about this entry, because this Wikipedia is only for reference purposes and the Wikipedia is not a "Who's Who" of celebrities, but a source of useful informations.
      • On the suggestion that other Palanca winners be cited in Wikipedia, why not? What is wrong with it?

The data about Wilson Lee Flores in this entry doesn't violate any copyright rules. If there are any copyright violations, please kindly specify.

It is strange that someone is spending time to erase this entry on Wilson Lee Flores for seemingly invalid reasons. I do not think a person should be mentioned in Wikipedia just because he or she has the most number of yahoo or google entries, this is not wholly rational. He is an interesting and a major newspaper columnist nd multi-awarded writer. I agree, the complaint seems quite out of place and unnecessary.

      • The data cited in the Wilson Lee Flores entry are all original, and does not violate any copyright informations anywhere. I further agree, if there are any alleged copyright violations, please present the specifics here.

In the rules of Wikipedia for inclusion of biographies, one of the criteria stated includes--- "Published authors, editors and photographers who received multiple independent reviews of or awards for their work". Wilson Lee Flores has authored five (5) books published by De La Salle University Press, which is part of one of the top universities in the Philippines. He had published thousands of newspaper columns, essays, articles in local and international publications which help shape public opinion.


In my casual research of Google, there are 714,000 hits on the name Wilson Lee Flores. But since I don't have time to go over the entire contents, I didn't have time to verify how many are "unique" hits. However, there was never any mention in the criteria for Wikipedia biographies that an entry should have the most number of google hits of whether a million or ten million. I also read that Wilson Lee Flores is President of Anvil Business Club, a major business organization in the Philippines whose induction of officers in July 2005 was hosted by Philippine President Gloria Macaopagal Arroyo in the Malacañang presidential palace at a 3-hours formal dinner. Among the guests included foreign diplomats such as the Singapore Ambassador, cabinet officials, legislators, heads of foreign chambers of commerce such as the British and Taiwanese Chambers of Commerce and others. This event was on primetime television news and reported in major newspapers such as Philippine Daily Inquirer and Philippine Star. He is not only a multi-awarded writer, but a leader of a major business organization. The above comments were all generated from the same IP address.

Commment . Try [this] google search for < 300 hits. The quotation marks make all the difference --Peripitus (Talk) 22:03, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Retain. It is very obvious to everyone that this writer more than merits citation in here due to his numerous awards and other notable activities, but I suggest that the whole piece can be edited for further improvement. This unsigned comment was the first generated by 124.106.237.43 (talk · contribs).
  • Keep agree to Wine Guy on his two points---that the author clearly meets the requirements and that the write-up needs clean up. This unsigned comment was generated by Musicloverasia (talk · contribs).
Comment - this is exactly why I listed the entry here for community-wide input on a keep/delete decision. I did not, however, anticipate this apparent sockpuppetry. Votes are coming into this AFD from anon IP editors whose only contributions are here and at the Flores entry. One anon editor entered his first comment down at the bottom, then went back up near the top to stick a second vote – four minutes later – in an attempt to vote twice. Musicloverasia has only one edit (at the time I wrote this), and it's the "keep" vote just above this comment. (New editors, all your edits are tracked and kept pursuant to the GFDL license.) There's absolutely nothing wrong with the Palanca Award - but I had never heard of it before reading this entry, and I still don't know much about it other than it's a Philippine award. Flores won his three all in the same year, 1987, and they were all for essays, not books. He won 1st and two other essays tied for 3rd place that year.
I listed this here because I just don't know if he meets the notability threshold or not. If the man is indeed notable enough to include in an encyclopedia, let's keep the entry, by all means. On the other hand, I have trouble keeping it if most of the votes here are from meatpuppets. I hope we get more unique votes. Baseball,Baby! balls•strikes 22:49, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete I cannot find any of the puported books at the publisher's [website]. All I can see is that he's journalist who's president of a business club. No books on either amazon or [http://www.kabayancentral.com] to be seen Per the below link it seems that the books are 8-page pamphlets which is hardly inspiring. Without verifyability this is a vanity article making unsupportable claims of notability. IF you remove the unverified parts of the article it clearly fails WP:BIO - Peripitus (Talk) 03:37, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Delete ...This is blatantly a vanity page. Information seen here only seems to laud the said person. Google search shows 281 hits since the person is a columist of a newpaper wherein he is a contributor, these topics were simply written by him. Secondly those voting to retain or keep the said articles are from the same ip in which User|124.106.237.43 has several comments & votes to keep or retain. Others are anonymous and unsigned. I would surmise that the author of this topic ( or probably Wilson Lee Flores himself) is the one defending and giving positive comments on the topic since the comments seems to be very detailed. Whereas most unique votes has voted to have it deleted.I have read the said article and I feel it does not deserve to be retained. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.69.18.27 (talk • contribs) .
  • Delete Violation of Wikipedia’s Autobiograpy policy of writing an article about oneself. Author of Flores topic use the guise of writing in the third person to present his biography. Neutral point of view has not been observed. As evidenced by grandstanding - seen by his self-inclusion in the List of Famous Chinese Filipinos or Chinese Mestizos history on March 21 2006 edit. Said topic has no impact or importance as an encyclopedic entry. Author may just use his user's page to enlighten Wikipedians on his accomplishments. Also violates WP:ENC —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.213.140.213 (talk • contribs) .
  • Keep The five books authored by Wilson Lee Flores are publicly on sale in Philippine bookstores, and those were published by De La Salle University Press. This fact can easily be verified by any person because De La Salle University Press is connected to one of the best universities in the Philippines. It is possible that the entry on Wilson Lee Flores was originally written by others, but the said subject had perhaps edited it himself in more details and probably over enthusiastically without fully knowing the rules of Wikipedia which correctly states that the point of view should be neutral. In objective assessment of this subject, he is an award-winning writer and author who merits mention in Wikipedia. A mention in Wikipedia is not to praise or to laud a person, that is why the point of view should be neutral and the entry should be edited in its point of view, but to delete it for wrong reasons is also wrong. That is just my honest and unbiased opinion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MusicLoverAsia (talk • contribs) .

I do think that this is just a question of editing the point of view to make sure the point of view is neutral.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Music lover asia (talk • contribs) 16:04, 20 July 2006.

  • Comment links provided by Musicloverasia shows the 5 books written by Flores has a total of 8 pages each, whether it includes the preface, table of contents or appendix, it's still a book, nontheless- or is it?--Aquaman007 08:35, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
    more of a pamphlet rather than a book at 8 pages - Peripitus (Talk) 09:50, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
      • Delete A pamphlet it is.- UNESCO requires a publication (other than a periodical) to have 'at least 5 but not more than 48 pages exclusive of the cover pages' to count as a pamphlet; a longer item is a book. You would expect a multi-awarded writer and public speaker as claimed by the author to do better than write 8 page pamphlets. Notability highly in doubt.For a book, the pamphlet is not.--58.69.34.133 11:10, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. Look, authors don't have to write books to be notable. This guy wan his Palanca Award for an essay. I think it counts. Mangojuicetalk 16:38, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 AFD relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
 Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, Mangojuicetalk 16:38, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment Is the Palanca award verifiable. What years? There's a wiki list by year but a cursory look didn't uncover him. Dlyons493 Talk 21:49, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
    • It's here: 1987 Palanca Awards. --Howard the Duck 02:55, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
      • Thanks. So he did win three prizes, but in a single year and in the fairly minor category of Essays. Now if it had been a book I'd have no doubts, but an essay ??? Dlyons493 Talk
        • Im pretty much sure he didn't just do essays, I remember reading his short stories/poems (?) while in high school. --Howard the Duck 03:12, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Note: He is also a columnist of the Philippine Star.
  • Delete Unable to verify claims on being a Director of the UMPIL, as a judge of various writing contest, as the editor of the 1986 book " The Turning Point", "Roots of the Philippine Business", on being a speaker in Soth Korea in 1988.210.213.190.184 04:49, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
    • [1]] suggests the only editor was Brevern. But the book is apparently a collection so it's possible one of his essays is included - I can't verify that from here. Some of the articles claims are backed up by his old school [2] Dlyons493 Talk 16:00, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
  • DELETE WP:VAIN WP:VERIFY58.69.18.238 15:54, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment this vote is from an editor who has just been vandalising the the AfD. Bandwith problems let to inadvertent blanking. Dlyons493 Talk 16:02, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep no reason for this nomination in my opinion. Daviegold 15:17, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Keep. Notable author, even if notability is minor. WP isn't a better place without this article. Aye-Aye 20:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment This is becoming utterly hilarious. We are not nominating this writer for a Nobel Prize for Literature. Isn't his having won five times in the most prestigious Philippine journalism awards---the Catholic Mass Media Awards---enough to merit this article? The way some naysayers are so vehemently nitpicking makes this seem like a deliberation for the Nobel Prize or Pulitzer Prize. First there was a claim the books are non-existent, then those are now being criticized...there was an earlier claim that he won one Palanca award, when there were three awards...but now this is questioned because they were all won in one year...this discussion is becoming too hilarious, don't you think? I suggest we be objective and less trivial, let this article be and move on to more important things.
  • Delete Pathetic excuse to let the article remain, as mentioned WP is informative, just put his name in the Palanca link (which is already the case) and thats it. Why does the article have to mention so many other events of this authors life which is hardly worth mentioning and quite ordinary to say the least. I would rather the author just reveal himself to the discussion group and not use anon ip and pseudonyms. I think this is an ego matter. So lets end this articles misery and as what the comment above says move on since if we leave this in other administrators who sees this article will nominate it for deletion again.
  • Comment What do you think of the editorial approach? (neutral point of view)Aquaman007 09:54, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Comment Agree that editing be done to ensure a neutral editorial point of view, perhaps that's the main problem of the complainant. The writer's having won 5 times in the Catholic Mass Media Awards seems to be noteworthy, not just his Palanca Awards, since it is without doubt the most important journalism honor in the Philippines attesting to integrity and excellence. I suggest that this fact not be ignored. I had already checked the credibility of the Catholic Mass Media Awards, and the Philippine media had reported his wins in recent years, and those awards should not be belittled even by the complainant against this article being in Wikipedia. The writer or his friends might be wrong in over enthusiastic descriptions of the writer before---and I agree those should be properly edited---but it would be equally wrong to be biased and to personally attack the writer's credentials or his works. Let us also not be guilty of being biased or frivolous in our criticisms. Thanks for allowing me to share my opinions.
  • Delete. There is a no vanity policy here. It doesn't matter if you are a journalist/businessman or whatever. Don't write about yourself, or even someone close to you, period. Pls see the arguments of User:JChap2007 aside from the policies mentioned. Assuming that the intent is for vanity which seems to be the case, the vote is delete no matter how verified or NPOVd this article is. With all policies aside, a community encyclo can not be taken advantage of in this way and its wrong. But since I assume good faith, I edited it for improved keepability, but still deletable with the other policy violation arguments mentioned above. Hope the edits are enough to merit a keep it but I won't be surprised if this thing is gone. :) --Noypi380 15:43, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Comment, I can still change my vote, but an example must be made about vanity by deleting it. No worries, if notability is there, the article can be made again. :) --Noypi380 16:38, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.