Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/West Ville (Animated Series)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete per lack of reliable sources or other indication of notability.Tikiwont (talk) 09:06, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] West Ville (Animated Series)

West Ville (Animated Series) (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) – (View log)

Within the last week, this article has been created and deleted by WP:CSD#A7 multiple times. It contains no assertion of significance. It does not seem to satisfy WP:WEB. It offers no reliable secondary sourcing. I can't find anything. Rather than continue the speedy delete/recreate cycle, I bring it here for discussion. If notability cannot be verified, I believe the article should be deleted and the title protected against further recreation. Moonriddengirl (talk) 16:58, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

  ATTENTION!

If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on a forum, please note that this is not a majority vote, but rather a discussion to establish a consensus among Wikipedia editors on whether a page is suitable for this encyclopedia. Wikipedia has policies and guidelines to help us decide this, and deletion decisions are made on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.

Nonetheless, you are welcome to participate and express your opinions. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end.

Note: Comments by suspected single-purpose accounts can be tagged using {{subst:spa|username}}
  • Do not delete

I believe that this article should stay in the encyclopedia because it is currently being edited through to meet Wikipedia's standards. Further plans to edit this page have also been established. I believe the article is put in an encyclopedic manner because the article contains information about West Ville's impact on fans of the show and detailed information about almost all of the characters. More details in episode summaries will be added soon as well. Any assistance in editing this page will be more than appreciated.

Now you may want this article to be deleted because you may think that there isn't any significance to the article. Let me assure you though, this article is signifant and offers important information that certain people may want to know. The animated series "West Ville" may not be very popular, but it is still an existing animated series with several fans who would greatly appreciate an article in an encyclopedia about the show. Furhtermore, the characters in the show "West Ville" are constantly growing. There is a lot of character growth in this show, and I believe it is necessary to record how certain character's personalities have changed overtime in an encyclopedia because some people may find it difficult to stay up-to-date with information about their favorite characters.
In conclusion, I believe that if you want this article to be deleted, give the article a change and truly find the significance of the article. Several people would greatly appreciate an article about this show and I would appreciate it if you let me, and all the other people who edit this page continue editing this page. Please give this article a chance to grow, there is significance in this article that you may have not found, so please keep this article on the encyclopedia, and thank you for your time. --Thekidwithoutaname (talk) 23:24, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
  • comment In order to establish this article on Wikipedia, you need to be able to demonstrate notability according to the guidelines at WP:WEB. This means utilizing reliable sources to demonstrate that the material is of encyclopedic interest. If you can assemble sources to demonstrate that the article is notable per that guideline, I will happily withdraw my nomination or, if others have already argued for deletion, change my particular opinion. Otherwise, it may be that you would find another website more appropriate to host the history of this series. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 23:34, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

After reading the discussion on this page, I added an external link where all of the episodes of the show "West Ville" are put.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by reliable sources, but would the official YouTube channel where all the episodes of the show are put count as a reliable source of information. All the information about the characters can be found in the episodes and episode summaries can also be written by either reading the episode's description on the internet, or watching the episode and coming up with a well thought out summary for it.

If this isn't enough of a reliable source, or if this isn't a reliable source for any reason, then please tell me.

Yo it's me (talk) 23:55, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Comment The question isn't whether the show exists; the question is whether its existence is of encyclopedic notability. As WP:WEB explains, there are three basic criteria that can be used to establish notability of web content:
(1)If it is the subject of multiple non-trivial published works independent of the site itself;
(2)If it has won a well-known and independent award;
(3)If it is distributed by a respected, independent medium, EXCEPT for hosting content on entertainment-like sites.
The reliable sources that are needed are needed to document or verify that the web content meets one of those criterion. For example, if it has been covered in an article by Entertainment Weekly or mentioned by Rolling Stone, you would include a pointer to the specific issue or a link to that site. If it has received a significant award, you would provide a pointer to a reliable source verifying that. I hope that this clarifies the matter for you. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 00:15, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
  • comment I'm sorry Moonriddengirl, but the show has not been covered in Entertainment Weekly or any type of magazine. Though I think the article follows one of the criterion, number one. The article is the subject of multiple non-trivial published works, independent on the site itelf. Though it may not follow the last part, see there isn't an official "West Ville" website. I heard from the creator (Matt Saunders) that plans to create an official website have been made, though. Although I don't understand why the episodes of the series aren't enough of a reliable source. All the episodes and characters are of course protected by copyright and have been published to the internet, so most of the sources for information on the article can be found in the episodes themselves or in Matt Saunder's YouTube channel. Also, like what I said, I think things would be easier if instead of trying to delete this page, you can help edit the article. If you want a source to information on the article, follow the external link in the article. Jennifergirl18 (talk) 17:44, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Like what Jennifergirl18 said? Aren't you Jennifergirl18? -- Moonriddengirl (talk) 17:52, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Oh sorry, I meant to say like what I said, just fixed that problem. I also forgot to say that if you won't help edit the page, can you at least tell me which sections of the article are not put in an encyclopedic manner or do not meet encyclopedia's standards and how I can fix them? Jennifergirl18 (talk) 18:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Comment I'd be happy to help edit the page if it conformed to the notability guideline. But as I said in my nomination above, I can't find any sources to validate the notability of this article. At this point, rather than evaluating independent sections, it would really serve you much better to see if you can verify that. In the last comment on this page, I've set out how that can be done and attempted to explain what "reliable source" means in terms of Wikipedia and notability. Even if an official website is made, it would not satisfy either; there is a specific section of the verifiability policy that explains what a "reliable source" is in Wikipedia's terms right here. As the notability guideline on web material explicitly says, "Primary sources alone are not sufficient to establish notability". It is a common requirement that articles be able to offer verifiable objective evidence to support a claim of notability. (Which is distinct from a claim of existence, which the episodes and an official websites could themselves substantiate). If verifiable objective evidence can't be produced, it would probably be better to seek a forum that does host this kind of material so that the labor already put into the article is not lost. I'm not that familiar with wikia, for instance, but it seems to be very open to variant content and might be a good place to host this material until it does satisfy the notability guideline, when Wikipedia will happily accept it. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 18:32, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Speedy delete and SALT Non-notable web series (A7), article's just an ad to get more viewers (G11), article's been recreated multiple times (G4...kinda). Open and shut case. --Closedmouth (talk) 01:12, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Comment retracted G11 as the creator doesn't seem to be involved (assuming good faith). --Closedmouth (talk) 02:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
  • delete WP:N (WEB) is a guideline, and can be interpreted reasonably, but there is simply no evidence for any degree of notability, importance, or even popularity. If the show is there will eventually be some. I consider this within Speedy A7 on the basis of the evidence so far. DGG (talk) 01:09, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Do NOT delete This is still an existing show, and I believe that information about the show should be in an encyclopedia. Resources for the information available in the article can be found in the "External Links" section. More links to more sources of information should be available shortly. To keep this short, I completely agree with thekidwithoutaname, keep the article in because there is a lot of information about the show that many people can find usefull, no matter how popular the show is.

Yo it's me (talk) 05:00, 27 January 2008 (UTC)— Yo it's me (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

  • Please leave the article in the encyclopedia thekidwithout a name made a great statement, although I believe it necessary to quote thekidwithout a name to help back up my opinion on this article. As the kidwithoutaname stated: "The animated series "West Ville" may not be very popular, but it is still an existing animated series with several fans who would greatly appreciate an article in an encyclopedia about the show. Furhtermore, the characters in the show "West Ville" are constantly growing. There is a lot of character growth in this show, and I believe it is necessary to record how certain character's personalities have changed overtime in an encyclopedia because some people may find it difficult to stay up-to-date with information about their favorite characters."

thekidwithoutaname also said that further plans have been made to edit the article, and thekidwithoutaname, I would be happy to assist you in editing this page.

Personally, I don't care if the show "West Ville" is very popular or not, it is still a great show, and several people have been amazed and inspired by the creator's talent! So please, do not delete this article. Let us continue editing it and let the article grow.

If you're looking where the resources for are information is, click on "external links" in the article. And what Yo It's Me said, "More links to more sources of information should be available shortly".

So please, leave the article in the encyclopedia.

PwnMaster08 (talk) 05:09, 27 January 2008 (UTC) — PwnMaster08 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

  • Do not delete the article I agree with thekidwithoutaname, Yo It's Me and PwnMaster08. They all took the words right out of my mouth. All I have to say is that this article is not an advertisement to gain more viewers, this show doesn't belong to any of us! The article should stay on wikipedia. End of story.

Kristineyoface (talk) 05:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC) — Kristineyoface (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

  • Do not delete

I would like to argue with what Closedmouth said by saying that this article is not an advertisement to gain more viewers, I even personally asked Matt Saunders (creator) if he knows that there is an article about his show on wikipedia and he said that he never knew there was an article of his show on wikipedia. So you were wrong Closedmouth, everyone who has been editing the article is just a fan of the show.

Secondly, from what thekidwithoutaname said, there is a lot of significance in the article. Episode description are on thing, but character descriptions are huge. The character's personal traits continually grow throughout the series. The show's impact on the public has been put into the article and I will soon create a section on the show's history. So, those are a few significant details about the show in the article that are put in an encyclopedic manner, and if they're not, I will happily edit the article so it sounds more like an encyclopedia article. If any part of the article doesn't seem to meet an encyclopedia's standards then please, either edit the section of the article that doesn't meet the standards or simply tell me what sections of the article are not put in an encyclopedic manner and I will edit them.

Additionally, more reliable sources for the information conceived for the article will be added shortly, although most of the information needed can be found in the episodes of the show themselves. So, to keep the short, all the information came from a published reliable source, the show itself. Besides that, there are several articles about animated series in the encyclopedia that no one seems to have a problem with. Though with the article "West Ville (Animated Series)" it seems like your trying to get it deleted just because the show isn't very popular. Well I still believe that the show is a very good show, the animation has amazed several people since there is only one animator for the show, and the only reason why it isn't very popular is because not much advertising has been done and not that many people can find the show.

In conclusion, I believe it is necessary to have an article about this series in an encyclopedia. Instead of trying to delete it, why not help edit the page instead? I rest my case.

Jennifergirl18 (talk) 17:35, 27 January 2008 (UTC) — Jennifergirl18 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Comment I'm afraid that you and the other fans are completely missing the point of reliable sourcing. Reliable sourcing is required to prove that the show is notable. The concept of encyclopedic notability is set out at the notability guideline and, with regards to specific web material, at WP:WEB. If the article cannot be demonstrated to be notable by secondary sources (the show is itself a primary source; the difference is explained at WP:V), then it is not appropriate for inclusion in Wikipedia. The number of the fans of the show who come here to argue that they enjoy it is immaterial to this debate; "I like it" is not an argument that holds much weight in deletion discussions, which are based not on numbers but on the strength of policy. If you would like to see this article remain on Wikipedia, you can best help it by finding proof that it is (1) the subject of multiple non-trivial published works independent of the site; (2) the recipient of a well-known and independent award from a publication or organization; or (3) distributed by a respected, independent medium that is not an entertainment-like site hosting content (e.g. online newspapers or magazines). Failing this, the time that you are putting into crafting the article may be wasted. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 17:50, 27 January 2008 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.