Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Welsh Nobility Family Seats
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. There is some merit in arguments advanced for renaming the article, or merging it with Welsh Peers, which also survived its deletion listing. This would answer the nominator's objection to the term "welsh nobility" as potentially misleading. I leave matters of merging and renaming up to the editors of the article. --Tony Sidaway 08:38, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Welsh Nobility Family Seats
Contested prod for this miscellaneous collection of information. It might be better if there were a Welsh Peerage; but WP is not the place to invent one. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:10, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletions. -- Rob C (Alarob) 01:25, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
- Merge information to article on Welsh Peers which is also here at AfD but should be kept. --Bduke 02:34, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
- Keep Because it is part of a larger series of Family Seats which will give examples of English, Scottish, and Irish family seats. Many of these family seats are already articals in Wikipedia. I only listed them in connection to leading Welsh-titled peers (those Welsh peers whose primary title is of a Welsh named origion). Drachenfyre 07:10, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
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- Please also note that this list shall be expanded, and is itself part of a possible larger series of family seats connected to that page. Eventually many other family seats will be listed, I only started with this Welsh list because it was the one I am most familure with. Please take this into account when you consider the merging. In my opinion, the Welsh Peers page will be too cumbersom to have this added to it, and the Family seat page itself will eventually become unwieldly when all the additional family seats are added for England, Scotland, Ireland, and elsewhere. I suppose what I am asking is please consider the larger series that shall be added eventually when in connection to the Family seats page. I ask that people also realize that these family seats themselves will be expanded upon, and 64.134.101.98 03:29, 20 June 2007 (UTC)((correcting signature)) Drachenfyre 03:34, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
- I implore everyone to look at the Scottish Nobility Family Seats as well, this will be part of a larger series of family seats complied into an easy reference. Drachenfyre 17:21, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
- Please also note that this list shall be expanded, and is itself part of a possible larger series of family seats connected to that page. Eventually many other family seats will be listed, I only started with this Welsh list because it was the one I am most familure with. Please take this into account when you consider the merging. In my opinion, the Welsh Peers page will be too cumbersom to have this added to it, and the Family seat page itself will eventually become unwieldly when all the additional family seats are added for England, Scotland, Ireland, and elsewhere. I suppose what I am asking is please consider the larger series that shall be added eventually when in connection to the Family seats page. I ask that people also realize that these family seats themselves will be expanded upon, and 64.134.101.98 03:29, 20 June 2007 (UTC)((correcting signature)) Drachenfyre 03:34, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
- Keep Nominator seems to be expressing an opinion through the AfD. The assertion might be correct, but this is not the correct forum to evaluate the assertion that there are no Welsh peers. --Kevin Murray 14:02, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
- Merge per Bduke. Eusebeus 15:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
- Keep as per Kevin Murray. Edward321 02:48, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
- Merge to article Welsh Peers as a major heading; per Bduke. - Peter Ellis - Talk 04:35, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
- Merge article with Welsh Peers although I dont know which should be the lead. The is no such thing as the Welsh Peerage but there are Welsh based peerages.--Vintagekits 01:49, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
- Delete- per nom Astrotrain 15:48, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Any useful info can go into the Welsh Peers article. --John 16:12, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
- I think Welsh Peers should be deleted as well Astrotrain 16:52, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
- Delete or renamed possibly as Landed Gentry Seats in Wales. That would make more sense. There are no such things as Welsh peers (to the best of my knowledge) only the Peerages of England, Scotland, and Ireland. Wales is thrown in with England. David Lauder 11:53, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
- Comment Regarding this and Scottish Nobility Family Seats, I would suggest that if we are having lists of family seats, they should be grouped by Peerage, ie Family seats of the Peerage of Scotland, and England, GB, UK, as this is how peers are arranged, not by the geographical location of their houses. Otherwise merge the Welsh list to Welsh Peers as above, and merge Scottish list to (eg) Peerage of Scotland. Edward Waverley 14:57, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
- I have thought about adding them to the other peerage pages. But potentially the list will become to large for the origional page, so felt it best to simply create a new page for them "Gentry Seats" is doable as David Lauder suggest. I would favor listing the Gentry Seats by the tittle's territorial qualification or place name origion (thus, "Gentry Seats of Wales," "Gentry Seats of Scotland," and "Gentry Seats of England"), so that you would group the Scottish place-name tittles together, and so on. Drachenfyre 16:32, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
- I would support that proposal actually! Astrotrain 16:37, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
- Comment: My own view is that "Gentry Seats" sounds a bit tacky. "Landed Gentry Seats" or possibly "County Seats" or "Family Seats" would be better. David Lauder 19:49, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
- David Lauder: I agree with your last statement. I would suggest "Family Seats" to be the better option, preferenced with the constituenty country before hand, thus "Welsh Family Seats," "Scottish Family Seats," and "English Family Seats." I do not think every title holder could be said to be "landed" anymore. Unles we use it as the territorial designation. County Seats I am partial to as well. As of corse most of these families now have residences elsewhere too. Finely, what of "Historic (country) Family Seats"? This broadens it somewhat. Would this be satisfactory to change the votes? 70.11.113.234 20:04, 21 June 2007 (UTC)Drachenfyre 20:05, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
- You've persuaded me - though I would propose Family seats in Wales, etc, to make clear it is the seats which are in Wales, not necessarily Welsh families. Welsh family seats could be seats of Welsh families anywhere. Is Family Seat normally capitalised? Edward Waverley 13:15, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
- If you were saying "Family Seats" or even "Historic Family Seats" (no need for '(country)' as no-one has a Family Seat in a connurbation) that might be even better because of the number of families forced, over the past century, to part with their seats. The articles might then have greater meaning. David Lauder 15:00, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
- I think we agree on many different points. We should move the finer discussion to the page itself. But on the outset I would prefer to link the title to the seat, with titles associated with constituient country. Drachenfyre 05:09, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
- If you were saying "Family Seats" or even "Historic Family Seats" (no need for '(country)' as no-one has a Family Seat in a connurbation) that might be even better because of the number of families forced, over the past century, to part with their seats. The articles might then have greater meaning. David Lauder 15:00, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
- You've persuaded me - though I would propose Family seats in Wales, etc, to make clear it is the seats which are in Wales, not necessarily Welsh families. Welsh family seats could be seats of Welsh families anywhere. Is Family Seat normally capitalised? Edward Waverley 13:15, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
- David Lauder: I agree with your last statement. I would suggest "Family Seats" to be the better option, preferenced with the constituenty country before hand, thus "Welsh Family Seats," "Scottish Family Seats," and "English Family Seats." I do not think every title holder could be said to be "landed" anymore. Unles we use it as the territorial designation. County Seats I am partial to as well. As of corse most of these families now have residences elsewhere too. Finely, what of "Historic (country) Family Seats"? This broadens it somewhat. Would this be satisfactory to change the votes? 70.11.113.234 20:04, 21 June 2007 (UTC)Drachenfyre 20:05, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
- Comment: My own view is that "Gentry Seats" sounds a bit tacky. "Landed Gentry Seats" or possibly "County Seats" or "Family Seats" would be better. David Lauder 19:49, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
- I would support that proposal actually! Astrotrain 16:37, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
